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>>Deinonychosauria (=Troodontidae + Dromaeosauridae) has never included the
>>birds. In fact, many dinosaur workers now agree that 'deinonychosaurs' are
>>diphyletic, with dromaeosaurids being closer to birds, and troodontids
>>closer to ornithomimids.
> *I* put them there for lack of anywhere else to put them in my dino
>database. The _Dino Data Book_ places them in the Coelursaurs, but the
>_Dinosauria_ says Coelursaurs is a bogus grouping. I decided to go with the
>_Dinosauria's_ info for my database, so I was left without a grouping to put
>Archie into. So I picked the Deinonychosauria.
It does not say coelurosaurs are a bogus group (at least it shouldn't).
Coelurosauria = birds and all theropods closer to birds than to Allosaurus.
All the theropod chapters (except for Ceratosauria and Carnosauria) in the
Dinosauria discuss coelurosaurs.
> And I probably would have picked Deinonychosauria anyway, just to be
> What would be your suggestion?
Dromaeosauridae + birds = Maniraptora (in the strict sense). For the group
including troodonts (and thus ornithomimosaurs and tyrannosaurids and
oviraptorids and...) as well, I incorrectly used "Maniraptora" in my 1994
paper, and am in the midst of rectifying that.
>>> If you want to see somebody have a coniption fit, tell them that birds
> Actually, I was referring to people in general who don't know a thing
>about phylogeny and cladistics and such.
> Tell the common man on the street that the pigeons he's feeding are
>reptiles ... and watch him start to foam at the mouth.
Okay, I agree with that... (Of course, he probably thinks whales are fish
and that reptiles, birds, amphibs, fish, and invertebrates aren't
Thomas R. Holtz, Jr. Phone: 703-648-5280
Vertebrate Paleontologist Fax: 703-648-5420
email@example.com ------------> firstname.lastname@example.org
U.S. Geological Survey -------------> University of Maryland
Branch of Paleontology & Stratigraphy ----> Department of Geology
MS 970 National Center
Reston, VA 22092 -------------> College Park, MD 20742