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Re: Re: T. rex's forelimbs

>In a message dated 95-11-06 08:32:50 EST, tuckr@digital.net writes:
>>> Now there was little tiff between Paul Sereno and Tom Holtz started by the
>>> former over early "dinosaur" phylogentics, but that is another matter.
>>    Details! Details!
>Among other things, Arctometatarsalia seems to be evaporating. But
>Bullatosauria remains fairly robust.

Actually, when my taxonomic note comes out, Arctometatarsalia will be
unevaporatable.  Arctometatarsalia's proper, new definition is
Ornithomimidae plus all theropods closer to O. than to birds (and, thus, the
sister taxon to Maniraptora [=birds and all theropods closer to birds than
to O.]).

Actually, I was quite pleased to see the universal acceptance of (or rather,
universal data support for) the coelurosaurian nature of Tyrannosauridae.

In Gauthier's new unpublished work (Hope you feel better, Jacques, and sorry
you coulnd't be there!) as well as Makovicky's (sp? Sorry, but don't have my
abstract handy) cladogram, tyrannosaurids were the sister group to all other
coelurosaurs.  In mine, tyrannos were arctometatarsalians (using the above
definition), as was the AMNH cladogram presented by Jim Clark (with
Therizinosauroidea as arctomets closer to bullatosaurs than to
tyrannosaurids).  In Sereno's cladogram, tyrannosaurids were maniraptorans,
troodontids were deinonychosaurs, and therizinosauroids were closer to
ornithomimids than to anything else.  Currie has been a long-time supporter
of the idea that tyrannosaurids are closer to troodontids and
ornithomimosaurs than to dromaeosaurids, but he considers birds to be

So, in fact, variations of my hypothesis were largely supported, even given
the universal problem with some of my original published characters (voiced in
varying degrees of tact by all presenters, myself included!).

Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
Vertebrate Paleontologist
Dept. of Geology
University of Maryland
College Park, MD  20742
Email:Thomas_R_HOLTZ@umail.umd.edu (th81)
Fax: 301-314-9661