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Re: Re: Taxonomy and naming issues

George Olshevsky writes (first quoting me):

>>birds than to Ceratosaurus).  Two taxa are subjective synonyms if they
>>conscribe exactly the same clade, but use one or two different taxa in
>>their defintion.
>We should clarify what we mean by "exactly the same clade." Two clades may
>contain exactly the same genera and species but still be different because
>the included genera may be differently organized in the two clades.

Organization does not matter, only content.  (Why am I writing like Zathras?
:-) [Hopefully you won't soon be telling us "Zathras always
     saying... No one listen to Zathras."  :-) -- MR]

For example, if I were to define Laniosauria (the wounding reptiles) as the
node-based taxon joining Sinraptor and Deinonychus, that would be a junior
subjective synonym to Avetheropoda, given my or the Sereno et al. or Currie's
phylogeny.  It would not be a junior subjective synonym given Russell and
Dong (or was it Dong and Russell's) cladogram (in the Alxasaurus paper).

As you can note from the above, you must clarify what cladogram you are
talking about when you discuss synonymy.  Nevertheless, there will always be
a taxon of at least one species described if you use phylogenetic taxonomy
(i.e., there will always be a node joining Sinraptor and Deinonychus, or a
clade of taxa closer to Neornithes than to Allosaurus.)

>>And, Allosauroidea is a Currie and Zhao name.
>No, this name is not used by Currie & Zhao (the _Sinraptor_ paper). It's
>first used by Sereno et al in the 1994 _Afrovenator_ paper, as far as I know.
>Its priority, however, stems from the first usage of the family name
>Allosauridae, by Marsh in 1878.

Currie and Zhao use the name in a paragraph in the Discussion section of the
Sinraptor paper.

>>No, objectively, Sinraptor is more closely related (i.e., shares a more
>>recent common ancestor) with Tyrannosaurus and Gallimimus and Trochilis
>>(hmmmmmmmmmmmm) than it is to Megalosaurus. :-)
>Okay, Tom. What's "Trochilis"? Something new?

A hummingbird.  [Please forgive me for interjecting... from a geological
                 perspective, that would be "something new" :-) -- MR]

Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
Vertebrate Paleontologist     Webpage: http://www.geol.umd.edu
Dept. of Geology              Email:th81@umail.umd.edu
University of Maryland        Phone:301-405-4084
College Park, MD  20742       Fax:  301-314-9661

"There are some who call me...  Tim."