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More lambeo infor (was Re: Family Ties)

At 05:36 PM 5/17/97 -0400, Jack Frost wrote:
>Thomas R. Holtz, whose name I recognize from somewhere else but can't
place, wrote: 

Well, look around, you may find my name elsewhere in association with

>>Among others: Parasaurolophus, Tsintaosaurus, and Hypacrosaurus are all very
>>distinctive lambeosaurines.  Others (Bactrosaurus, Barsboldia, etc.) are
>>less well-known.
>Bactrosaurus, IMHO, is much better known than Tsintaosaurus.

As you explain elsewhere, you believe when I said "well-known", I was
refering to some sort of dinosaur popularity contenst.  For your future
understanding, "well-known" in the context of fossils almost always means
"represented by better, more complete fossil material".

However, even under the "popularity contest" concept, I counter your
argument that Bactrosaurus is better known among non-scientists than is
Tsitaosaurus.  Whereas Bactrosaurus is extraordinarily boring as far as
hadrosaurids go (at least in terms of interesting features), Tsintaosaurus
(with its distinctive vertical crest) has been featured on stamps, covers to
dinosaur books, and most pictures that show hadrosaurid skull diversity.  I
certainly knew about Tsintaosaurus before I knew of Bactrosaurus.

As for the supposed composite nature of the beast, recent work by French
paleontologists in China (I can't recall if it is Taquet or Buffetaut, and
incidentally the other disagrees with the first...) have found multiple
partial skulls of Tsintaosaurus, including additional specimens with the
vertical crest.  It does seem to be distinctive, a lambeosaurine, and an
interesting critter.

>should have its own family.  I'm sorry if you disagree, but these stuffy
>Ivy League types

Son, before you going around berating the League, let's see if you know what
you're talking about:

List the members of the Ivy League.  For extra credit, list the Seven Sisters.

(You want stuffy?  You can get stuffy!) :-)

>we have classifying these animals don't know their butts from a hole
>in the ground if they haven't figured out yet that they need to classify the
>said animals by their CREST SHAPE.

Given that you know very little about biological taxonomy (i.e., if you
don't think crest shape has already been used in the classification of the
lambeosaurines, why do you think they are already named as different genera?
Oh, wait, you probably think they actually HAVE those names, and that they
weren't given them by humans...), I'll let the last few phrases in that
sentence pass.

I can challenge your assertion that Ivy League paleontologists don't know
our butts from holes in the ground, but choose not to do so publically in
consideration of the younger members of the reading audience... :-)

>>If that occurred, yes, there would be
>>a Lambeosaurinae family, and Tsintaosaurus and Lambeosaurus would all be in it
>>(if there's more than one species of each).

Actually, to put us Ivy League paleontologists in our place, let's hear how
you would recognize a lambeosaurine from a hadrosaurine if you didn't find
the skull.  (Oh, but that would NEVER happen... ;-)

>"This sentence no verb."

"This .sig file not original"

Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
Vertebrate Paleontologist     Webpage: http://www.geol.umd.edu
Dept. of Geology              Email:th81@umail.umd.edu
University of Maryland        Phone:301-405-4084
College Park, MD  20742       Fax:  301-314-9661