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Re: Cro Magnon and sauropod tails (was Re: No subject? - follwo-up)

Tom, etc.:

    I was just about to answer this question, and then I saw your (Tom's)
reply.   Minor additions:

    Cro Magnon, at one point in the past 15 years was thought to be a
dead-end line of _Homo sapiens_, just like Neanderthals.  They had larger
braincase sizes than most of the _Homo sapiens sapiens_ do today, and they
were taller than most humans until this past century.  This theory is not
currently supported.

    Neanderthals (remember NOT to pronounce the 'h') are by most current
standards _Homo sapiens neanderthalus_.  According to the most recent DNA
findings, however, they are not genetically modern _Homo sapiens sapiens_ 's
ancestors (I believe there is more than 3% difference in the DNA - which is
more than the difference between us and chimpanzees!).  (By the way,
Neanderthals also had, on average, greater braincase size than modern
humans -  they might have invented burial as an important ritual).

    _Homo sapiens_ appeared approximately 200,000 years.  The main
differences between them and the more modern forms that appeared 30,000 -
40,000 years ago seems to be the usage of certain types of tools and
planning on a much larger scale (much better group hunting!) , as well as
survival of all sorts of ecological disasters (Ice Ages, paleomagnetic
flip-flops, major faunal changes, etc.), and possibly the beginning of art
(there is the possibility of some art work that pre-dates even the archaic
_Homo sapiens_, ie. made by _Homo erectus_).

    Even though not everyone's ancestors came from Europe, the Ice Ages and
the magnetic reversals affected everyone to some extent.  (I recently
learned that some of the temperature changes during the last set of Ice Ages
were quite violent and rapid - 50 - 70 degree changes, some times
[apparently] overnight!!!  This level of severe change might explain the
major differences between Neanderthal and us).

    Back to dinosaurs:

        Your post seems to indicate that there is currently ONLY ONE
sauropod with a tail club.  I seem to recall a third dinosaur mentioned as
having one (ie.  Not _Shunosaurus_ and _Omeisaurus_).  Can you or someone
else clear up my confusion?   Also, I recall Tracy Ford reporting that one
sauropod was found which had an endpoint to its tail - which actually came
to a point.  (This is one of those with the truly tapering tail bones).


        Allan Edels

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas R. Holtz, Jr. <th81@umail.umd.edu>
To: randyk@ims.com <randyk@ims.com>
Cc: dinosaur@usc.edu <dinosaur@usc.edu>
Date: Friday, July 10, 1998 9:02 AM
Subject: Cro Magnon and sauropod tails (was Re: No subject? - follwo-up)

>At 08:56 AM 7/9/98 -0700, Randy King wrote:
>>I believe, it was Cro Magnon who survived the glacial period in Europe.
>>Current theories do not place us as a descendant of Cro Magnon.
>Just a reminder: Cro Magnon people are fully modern _Homo sapiens sapiens_,
>a position uncontested by any anthropologist or paleontologist as far as
>I've heard.  The Cro Magnon was simply an ancient culture of modern humans,
>just as the Sumerians or the Arawaks or the Ainu were/are their own
>of modern humans.
>This is in contrast to Neandertals, which were anatomically distinct from
>any modern population, and lie well outside the morphological variation
>found in modern humans.
>Also, as a second reminder, not everyone on the list has ancestors from
>Europe, anyway...
>And, to include some dinosaur information (and thereby justify its
>on the net):
>Someone recently asked a question as to whether any sauropods other than
>_Shunosaurus_ had clubtails.  Wilson & Sereno (Mem. of the SVP 5, p. 15)
>discuss that there is, at present, no direct evidence that _Omeisaurus_ had
>a tail club.  Although some have attributed some of the isolated tail clubs
>at Dashanpu to _Omeisaurus_, they have not been found in articulation with
>unquestioned _Omeisaurus_ material.  At present, only _Shunosaurus_ has
>demonstrated to be clubtailed.  (Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if
>_Omeisaurus_ did turn out to be clubtailed, but that waits to be seen).
>Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
>Vertebrate Paleontologist     Webpage: http://www.geol.umd.edu
>Dept. of Geology              Email:th81@umail.umd.edu
>University of Maryland        Phone:301-405-4084
>College Park, MD  20742       Fax:  301-314-9661