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Re: Popular Support of the 2nd-Flight. Model

--Original Message-- From: Jaime A. Headden <qilongia@yahoo.com>Date: 14
November 1998 08:12

>  To the list, but to John Jackson in particular,

Sorry not to reply earlier Jaime; just trying to make sure I wasn't tempted
back to the thread.

>  One cannot immediately say that 2nd-Flight. is a suppressed model
>for birds and bird-like theropod evolution. It is, in fact, known to
>at least one theropod worker outside of this list: Currie.
>  In a recent perusal of the _Encyclopedia of Dinosaurs_, I found a
>few remarks on this very subject, though there was some disappointment.
>  Currie (1997) notes, without reference, that "Dromaeosaurids are
>often considered to be the most bird-like of the small theropods. . .
>. There are so many similarities between dromaeosaurids and birds that
>some have even speculated that dromaeosaurids were birds that lost
>their ability to fly. . . . All known dromaeosaurids are K in age,
>although they no doubt originated sometime in the J, because other
>maniraptoran taxa are known from the Late J." (p. 195)

That's just it - deep in the middle of an encyclopaedia!  What was wrong
with mentioning this at the National Geographic bash for _Protarch/Caudipt._
?  And that is the type of reason I haven't even been tempted to buy that
book.  Important truths glossed over, I'll be bound!

>  Not to rehash Tom's words, but analysis of morphology (no
>cladistics, here) seems to show a likelyhood of the Ornithomimosauria
>and Troodontidae having as a common ancestor (assuming Bullatosauria
>is not polyphyletic) somewhere in the Tithonian or even Kimmeridgian.

I agree.

>I'd say that the degree of similarity between the oviraptorosaurian
>and bullatosaurian lines are so similar in their basal and _advanced_
>forms that they would have originated only a little prior to that
>former taxon.

When was the first known Ovi with respect to Pelecanimimus?

>Then whence comes the tyrannosaurs, who might pop in
>anywhere, but my short, quick calculations have not included them.
>However, they would neccesarily come in as well at least Kimmeridgian.


>All these lines, as early as the Bathonian, and that leaves plenty of
>room for Archie and dromies to split.

Not quite sure of your meaning here.

>  Calling for a minor armistice and general truce

Looks like it worked!  Or maybe it was the k-armed bandit stuff; I never
learn - I've
mentioned that in about 5 emails and no-one has ever replied.  Still, it's
nice to know you have a sure-fire non sequitur up your sleeve if you need

"Octopodes" eh!  Well I never!  Should be able to win a few bets on that!

A man who comes from the antipodes
Just for fun likes to swim with platypodes
He's immune to their poison -
He really enjoys'em!
He'll swim next with blue ring octipodes!

JJ  (17)