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RE: Follow-up on Lions of Savuti
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Campbell [SMTP:Sankarah@ou.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 4:44 PM
> To: Stewart, Dwight
> Cc: email@example.com
> Subject: Re: Follow-up on Lions of Savuti
> "Stewart, Dwight" wrote:
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Chris Campbell [SMTP:Sankarah@ou.edu]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 10:11 AM
> > > To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> > > Subject: Re: Follow-up on Lions of Savuti
> > >
> > > > Hmmm... Well so much for using that as an analogy for
> > > theropods
> > > > predating adult sauropods. :-)
> > >
> > > Presumably they'd have less trouble with juveniles. Which is what I'd
> > > expect them to go for, in any event.
> > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> > No, I don't. With modern prey/predator relationships (when
> >prey animal is many X's larger than the predator) it is the very young,
> >the very old, the sick, trapped, or injured who are selected.
> I don't understand how it is you're disagreeing with me. I did say
> juveniles, after all. I'd expect them to go for other things as well,
> but juveniles will be lots more common than the very old, the sick, or
> the trapped or injured. Heck, wildebeest manage to keep a stable
> population despite the fact that five hundred thousand of the critters
> are born every year. Most of those wind up as food during their first
Oh, sorry: I'm NOT disagreeing. I meant "no" I believe juveniles
the exception, & thus preyed upon.
> >It's simply not in the best interest of a predator to risk serious injury
> >attempting to take down an enormous prey animal.
> I don't think anyone's claimed otherwise.
> > Now, I'm NOT saying that predators never act out of desperation, but
> >don't represent their normal hunting patterns. A species survives as a
> >successful predator in large part because they are good at exploiting
> >niche in the environment.
> Again, I haven't seen anyone claim anything to the contrary.
> > > We can't prove anything at all. All of this is speculation, and can
> > > be anything but. We still don't know what was up with the fighting
> > > in Mongolia, for example, and even though we know a hadrosaur healed
> > > from a tyrannosaur bite we still don't know how common active
> predation on
> > > hadrosaurs by tyrannosaurs was. We never will know these things, and
> > > best we can do is make reasonably informed guesses.
> > Yes, I'd say I agree with that - in the main. Now, IF we
> > substantial evidence of cooperative hunting techniques among carnivores
> > dinosaurs, I would find the "preying on VERY large animals" idea more
> > palatable.
> I don't see why they'd ever prey on VERY large animals, when juveniles
> of all sorts were no doubt readily at hand. We know at least some of
> these guys started out quite small, so there's plenty of food for
> However, just because they'd go after smaller animals doesn't mean
> cooperative techniques wouldn't be useful. If the herbivores in
> question tended toward herds, for example, cooperative tactics of some
> sort might be exceedingly useful. Since issues of size, intelligence,
> and physical capability have all been addressed (i.e., claiming that
> cooperative behavior was impossible is no longer tenable), the question
> remains wide open. There's no evidence showing therapods hunted
> cooperatively, and there's no evidence showing they didn't. Cooperative
> tactics were certainly a possibility, and given the wide range of
> therapod types I imagine the behavior showed up at least occasionally.
> Beyond that, we can't say anything for sure.
Agreed. I believe the evidence is sparse to prove OR disprove
But, cooperative hunting is a tried & true strategy. And, then,
there are degrees of
cooperation; from the quite matter-of-fact efforts of crocodiles to
the very structured
techniques of some toothed whales.
Sort of on this subject: wasn't a possible juvenile Tyrannosaur
found near "Sue"?
Does anyone have any additional information regarding that?