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Re: Giant flightless birds

Well,....obviously, I`m not current. There`s a lot to learn after 20 years
of neglecting the subject. (now I know what Ol` Rip Van Wink felt like ;^)
Lately I`ve been delving into Pterosaurs and Prolacertilians (what little
there is), and have yet to read of the many Dinosaurs discovered, named and
renamed since the basic handfull from my youth.

I really wish I had kept up with it ( if only as a hobby). I`d better get
more informed with Theropods at least. It would probably shed more light on
my theory of avian development, and then perhaps  I can throw some "more
challanging" questions in Dr Holtz`s direction!

----- Original Message -----
From: Jaime A. Headden <qilongia@yahoo.com>
To: <dinosaur@usc.edu>
Cc: <larryf@capital.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: Giant flightless birds

> Larry Febo wrote:
> <Also, ...with a bit of reading in "The Dinosauria" I
> found that Elmisauridae (which don`t have opposable
> digits) also have long arms. So I guess my arguement
> for a connection between usefullness of the manus for
> grasping and retention of long arms has no basis in
> fact. It seems that arm length is a totally random
> condition in theropods.>
>   But "Elmisauridae" doesn't exist. Or at least it did
> until Sues synonymized the Elmisauridae and
> Caenagnathidae in 1997. Essentially, "elmisaurids" are
> oviraptorosaurs, maniraptorans at least by some recent
> studies (Barsbold's (various dates), Currie's (various
> dates), Russell and Dong's, Sues'). Long arms appear
> to be directly correlated to the long hands and swivel
> wrists, and as such, Gauthier (1986) used them as
> synapomorphies of Maniraptora, and Holtz (1996) used
> them synapomorphies of Maniraptoriformes, which
> includes ornithomimosaurs, dromaeosaurs,
> oviraptorosaurs, and yes, tyrannosaurs.

PS thanks for the "refs" I do have some of them, but have yet to read them
thoroughly! How to begin with the "Encyclopedia of Dinosaurs"
??????....(start with "A"?) Right now I just gotta go back to sleep!