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Re: evasive, camouflaged flocking

At 06:19 PM 5/20/99 -0500, Mickey P. Rowe wrote:
>There seems to be a lot of interest here in color vision (well, at
>least two people are interested in it :-) in dinosaurs and other
>animals.  I want to take up Matt's request and talk about my talk at
>the North-Central GSA meeting, but I fear I'm going to have to say I
>can't right now because I can't afford the time.  Maybe if Mary and
>Tree would quit telling me about "The Phantom Menace"... (Sorry;
>inside joke).
>I will talk about the subject at some point in the hopefully not too
>distant future, but I'm also planning to write a paper about it.  

color vision or The Phantom Menace?
   Ok, I'll take either.

>Maybe I can pull out Holtz' stock answer #1 and say "Wait for the
>%*#$Q)*% paper!" :-) I could be shamed into spilling earlier if Matt
>would tell us about sauropod feet.  I note that he was too humble to
>tell us of his excellent talk (it *had* to be good because he wore a
>suit :-) I think Matt's talk was the first one I've been to which
>featured a slide of AT-AT Walkers... where's Darren when you need him?
>I've been planning to summarize all of the talks from the symposium at
>which Matt and I presented, but as I said above I fear I can't just
>Anyhoo, I can't remain completely quiet here in the face of Randy's
>> Almost all fish are colorblind,
>That's not likely to be correct.  It's certainly true that most fish
>that humans typically interact with (e.g. around coral reefs, in pet
>stores, on fishing boats) have the capacity for better color vision
>than we do.  The only fish that are likely to be completely colorblind
>are those that live at great depths in the ocean.

My refernces disagree with you on this point.  (Maybe I need better
refernces?)  I know that popular opinion is that fish see colors,
but my understanding is that most are basically colorblind as in
black-gray-white vision.  I do not know the correlation between
the colorful fish and colorblindness.  Not all fish are reef-colored
and this may be an important correlation.  The color in lures that 
fishermen use is mostly for the fishermen.  The fish they catch 
usually only see the variations.  

Aquatic mammals tend to have better vision.  

>> Most livestock are colorblind, I believe that horses are.
>That depends upon how you define "colorblind".  Using the definition
>that we typically use for humans that are "colorblind" it is most
>probably true (not much research has really been done to characterize
>color vision in such animals, but the data that are there suggest that
>horses, cows etc. are like humans with red-green color blindness).
>However, contrary to what I suspect many of you might be thinking,
>that doesn't mean that they see a black and white world.  They can
>make color discriminations just not the same ones that humans make.

Both livestock and fish are awfully large groups, I was reluctant
to state it that way initially.  I believe that cattle are also
strictly black-white colorblind.  Anyway, I've never been particularly
interested in livestock, so I can only repeat what I've been told or
have read - and remember.

However, as usualy, I've been out of college for two decades.
I've noticed a few changes since then. :)