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Re: Jobaria and the Elephant Commit Suicide

On Thu, 11 Nov 1999 Danvarner@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 11/11/99 5:05:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
> rtravsky@uwyo.edu writes:
> << AN elephant merely provides a physical model for the behavior.
>     WHAT BEHAVIOR? Do elephants step on lions and tigers on a regular basis?

*REARING* behavior. Self evident from reading.
>  A sauropod would not have to rear up fully for this to be effective.
>  Consider the relative sizes of the sauropod and the carnosaur. A pushoff
>  gains height for the sauropod, and this makes for quite a landing. If the
>  carnosaur had actually tried its entry at this point, the sauropod body
>  would've come down right on it.
>   A carnosaur would >wait< to be stepped upon ?

There is very little time involved. Speaking from over twenty years in
martial arts, I can affirm to you things happen quickly. People think
there's all kinds of time in a confrontation but there isn't.

You can watch any nature show with filmed predator prey interactions and
see for yourself in regards to animals.

Besides, if you would go back an read what I wrote, I said "the sauropod
body would've come down right on it" (it being the predator). Nowhere is
it said stepped on, as in involving the use of feet. Imagine, if you
would, the belly area coming down on the predator. That is a *lot* of
weight, even for a short pushoff. No need here for a full rear. (which is
why I suggest the horse as a better behavioral model)

Plus, the front limbs do not have to be employed from a full rear in
order to be effective as a defense.

Now, a full rear is still permitted in defense. It could occur when
the predator(s) has been sighted (the sauropods did enjoy an advantage in
seeing distances and so forth. A full rear could've been a threat display
in response to a sensed attack.
>  Behaviorally, a  better model, I think, would be a horse. Horses rear, and
>  can actually go bipedal for a few moments and their rearing behavior is
>  used for defense.
>   I'm sorry. You are at the University of Wyoming. Take a close look at the 
> Apatosaur skeleton there then go outside and look at a horse. A better 
> model?!!? Dan Varner.

I said behaviorally. Not skeletally. Two entirely different things.

Both the sauropd and horse skeleton permit rearing (the former as
explained on the jobaria web page).