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Re: Jobaria and the Elephant Commit Suicide

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard W Travsky <rtravsky@uwyo.edu>
To: dinosaur@usc.edu <dinosaur@usc.edu>
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: Jobaria and the Elephant Commit Suicide

>On Thu, 11 Nov 1999 Danvarner@aol.com wrote:
>>   Once again another sauropod mount rears its head, lifting its forelimbs
>> into the air, ready to crush an Allosaurus or Afrovenator into a pulp. I
>> elephants have something to do with this imagery--they can rear up to
>> food or perform tricks in the zoos or circus. But do they do this for
>> defense? I know they use their heads and tusks. Look what one did to Carl
>> Akeley. Is there any record of an elephant rearing up and stomping a lion
>> tiger? Or a pride of lions or whatever they call a group of tigers? Ron?
>AN elephant merely provides a physical model for the behavior.
>>   It seems to me that it would take about a day for a carnosaur to learn
>> when a large sauropod BEGAN to rear up on its hind limbs that that would
be a
>> signal to come and get it. "Here's my exposed belly and hind limbs!"No
>> deal for those swift killers to avoid that kind of confrontation. I'm
>> but I don't think this scenario has been thought out very well. There is
>> mention at the www.jobaria.org website about elephants using this kind of
>> behaviour for defense. Have I missed something?
>A sauropod would not have to rear up fully for this to be effective.
>Consider the relative sizes of the sauropod and the carnosaur. A pushoff
>gains height for the sauropod, and this makes for quite a landing. If the
>carnosaur had actually tried its entry at this point, the sauropod body
>would've come down right on it.
>Behaviorally, a  better model, I think, would be a horse. Horses rear, and
>can actually go bipedal for a few moments and their rearing behavior is
>used for defense.
>Don't forget, rearing up gives the impression of being larger. Many
>animals do the equivalent - like raising fur or having a mane.
>> [...]

Wouldn`t rearing up also get the vulnerable head-neck region out of
immediate harms way? Seems like this is where a large carnosaur might strike
first.... and maybe that`s why all the missing sauropod heads???. ....(just
guessing here!)