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Re: "carnosaur" classification (ABC)





David,
Yes, that does help. I think I'll go with Megalosauridae, and hope it gets phylocode priority rather than Torvosauridae.
As for it having a "wastebasket image", I think "Carnosauria" beats it by a country mile. The short story is that Carnosauria was a polyphyletic wastebasket, until they took tyrannosaurs out. That basically left a paraphyletic Carnosauria (as you noted), so then all the spinosaurs and megalosaurs were thrown out as well, leaving Carnosauria (sensu stricto) which is basically the same thing as Allosauria/Allosauroidea (sensu lato).
With that kind of wastebasket history and different meanings, I would much rather get rid of Carnosauria (as a taxon of any kind), whose wastebasket-istics are far worse than those of Megalosauridae. Even if I did want to keep the old paraphyletic "Carnosauria" (which I don't), I would call it something else. On top of everything else, the name "carnosaur" isn't even appropriate any more---actually come to think of it, it never was appropriate!!!
ABC (Anything But Carnosauria)!!!!! Toss it on the junk pile with Vermes and Insectivora.
----Ken
********************************************************
From: "David Marjanovic" <David.Marjanovic@gmx.at>
Reply-To: David.Marjanovic@gmx.at
To: "The Dinosaur Mailing List" <dinosaur@usc.edu>
Subject: Re: "carnosaur" classification
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 18:49:44 +0100

If you include Torvo-/Megalosauridae in Carnosauria, it is likely to become
very paraphyletic.

> P.S.  QUESTION:  By the way, which has priority, Torvosauridae or
> Megalosauridae?   Is it possible that one could have priority by the
> Zoological Code and the other priority by the PhyloCode???

Yes. If *Megalosaurus* belongs into Torvosauridae as currently understood,
and it surely looks like that, then under ICZN Megalosauridae has priority.
I have read somewhere (maybe I can dig the ref up, but...) that at least
some people prefer to use Torvosauridae because it is phylogenetically
defined (how actually? *Torvosaurus* > Neornithes?) and well-diagnosed
(how?). Under PhyloCode nothing has priority, because it is not yet
implemented. Either M. or T. will gain priority if it will be
phylogenetically defined _after_ PhyloCode will have been implemented.

Until then I'll prefer to use T. because M. has this wastebasket image.

Hope this helps!

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