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Fw: Paralititan (mangrove swamps)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Silvio Renesto" <renesto@mailserver.unimi.it>
To: <dinosaur@usc.edu>
Cc: <Andrea.Tintori@unimi.it>
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: Paralititan (mangrove swamps)

> Dear listmembers,
> several messages talk about mangrove habitats for Paralititan and other
> North African theropods: are they meaning "mangrove-like"?
> May have been some Mesozoic conyphers adapted to brackish environments
> like, just to say one,  Brachyphyllum?
> I have been said that true mangroves appeared later. Apologies if it has
> been explained in some message I have incidentally lost.
> Regards,
> Silvio Renesto
> -
> "Before being enlightened,   hard work; after enlightenment, hard work"
> (Guo Yunshen).
> Dr. Silvio Renesto
> Dipartimento di Scienze della Terra
> Università degli Studi di Milano
> via Mangiagalli 34
> I 20133 Milano
> Italy

Dr. Renesto,

We do in fact define our terms in the Science paper, in that we have adopted
an environmental and not a species-dependant definition of "mangrove."  To
quote from our paper:

"Mangroves are vegetated paralic environments, defined by Thanikaimoni
(1987) as 'intertidal tropical forests.'  Mangroves first developed in the
Carboniferous (360-286 Ma), when salt-tolerant gymnosperms and pteridophytes
adapted to the habitat (Cridland, 1964; Raymond, 1988).  Modern mangroves
include members of 27 plant genera (Duke, 1992) and first developed along
the Late Cretaceous Tethys Seaway (Ellison et al., 1999)."

We are in no way suggesting that we have evidence of modern mangrove genera
in the Bahariya Formation.  We do not. We do vigorously assert, however,
that a mangrove is an environment which has been occupied by a variety of
plant groups since the Carboniferous. Using this definition, the qualifier
"mangrove-like" is not necessary.


Cridland, A. A., 1964, Amyelon in American coal-balls: Palaeontology, v. 7,
p. 186-209.

Duke, N. C., 1992, Mangrove floristics and biogeography, in Robertson, A.
I., and Alongi, D. M., eds., Tropical Mangrove Ecosystems, Washington, D.C.,
American Geophysical Union, p. 63-100.

Ellison, A. M., Farnsworth, E. J., and Merkt, R. E., 1999, Origins of
mangrove ecosystems and the mangrove biodiversity anomaly: Global Ecology
and Biogeography, v. 8, p. 95-115.

Raymond, A., 1988, The paleoecology of a coal-ball deposit from the middle
Pennsylvanian of Iowa dominated by cordaitalean gymnosperms: Review of
Paleobotany and Paleobotany, v. 3, p. 233-250.

Thanikaimoni, G., 1987, Mangrove palynology: Travaux de la Section
scientifique et technique ; t. 24: Pondicherry, UNDP/UNESCO Regional Project
on Training and Research on Mangrove Ecosystems RAS/79/002 : French
Institute, 100 p.
Kenneth J. Lacovara, Ph.D.
Interim Director
Engineering Geology
Drexel University
3141 Chestnut Street
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19104