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RE: STEGOSAURS: SPECIAL CREATION



 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dinosaur@usc.edu [mailto:owner-dinosaur@usc.edu]On Behalf Of Tetanurae@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 11:21 PM
To: dinosaur@usc.edu
Subject: STEGOSAURS: SPECIAL CREATION

 

Tracy Ford wrote:
<<First, Stegosaurs and Ankylosaurs are not related, not even closely. Thanks
to the missbelief of this and cladistics it keeps getting perpetuated (I'm
just say'n in this case :) ).>>

I am confused by this Tracy.  Are you saying that stegosaurs were created seperately from all other organisms?  That they had some special origin outside of all other life on Earth?  Last time I checked, stegosaurs and ankylosaurs were pretty clearly dinosaurs, were pretty clearly ornithischians, and were pretty clearly outside of Cerapoda.  Perhaps Thyreophora is not exclusively monophyletic, BUT saying that "they're not related, not even closely" is just not right...
<<

Peter, are you ok? Are you on drugs, feeling sick? Whats your problem? I’m trying to understand why you wrote what you did. It’s completely insensitive, totally sarcastic. I NEVER SAID STEGOSAURS WERE NOT DINOSAURS!!! Jesus Christ, this just makes me really want to just leave the list. This is making it really easy for me to just say F*&()(  this list, these people are nuts!!!

<<Scelidosaurus is an ankylosauroid (or ankylosaur) and NOT at the junction of
thyrophean, which doesn't exist. Norman is working on this and should have
the paper out soon.>>

I look forward to reading it.

<<Jim Kirkland also believes this (pers. comm..).>>

Although I respect Dr Kirkland, and yourself very much, I don't see how saying "so and so says so" lends any support to your case as you've not really provided any character evidence in support of a paraphyletic Thyreophora.  It's an argument from authority.
<<

What the hell do you want me to do. Not give a heads up on current theories or screw up other peoples research just because idiots on this list want it? I will NEVER tell this list my research or my reasons now, thanks for pushing me toward that!!!

>>Again, I am really curious about the alternate topology and the character evidence that supports it.<<

Screw that, I will not frustrate myself with this list with any research now.

>>  I am perfectly willing to let objectivity take over on this one, and if the characters say Thyreophora is paraphyletic, then I will too.  There's a problem though... I haven't heard or seen any character evidence to the contrary, and in fact have seen a lot of evidence support thyreophoran monophyly, and it's not just "presence of armour."<<

Pete Buchholz
Tetanurae@aol.com

 

I’m just going to lurk from now on!!!!

 

Tracy L. Ford

P. O. Box 1171

Poway Ca  92074