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Re: Deltopectoral Crests and Condyles on the Humeri

Ah.. Great stuff... Thanks a lot Mr. Mortimer. That was basically exactly what I was looking for.

Yes, you are very much right, Deinonychus and other dromaeosaurs are a bit less then 45 degrees. And yes, I looked into the others you listed and you are right. Most likely the deltopectoral crest is a characteristic of the paravians. As usual, I jumped the gun.

And yes, I knew that the condyles were coded for phylogenetic analyses and I definitely know it's a controversial mess, with some saying yes and others no. But, there is one thing that really sticks out with the phylogenetic analyses. I guess what is important is the 0 ... 1 idea. I, being no one mind you, think that there needs to be some type of gradient. Kinda like a "transitional state", however that would be defined. I mean, what do you do when you encounter scenarios like this???: Coracoid and scapula unfused 0 fused 1. But, what happens when you have it unfused again? And when it comes to the elongation of the coracoid, what about squaring?... at the articulations?.... What about the fact that is does articulate? But yes, I know, the fusion issue is a complex headache. I'm just babbling. This is the stuff that can keep you up at night.

As for the distal condyles, I'm thinking that some only go by full cranial condyles for their analyses. What happens when you are looking for the movement from the distal most end up onto the anterior side? I mean, it's not going to be full yet. And what if there is a corresponding elongation of the dorsal, the lateral condyle? Speaking of which, is this elongation seen only in basal bones? Do the paraves have it in any way? I know that this elongated dorsal condyle is used in the flexion process that drives the radius forward to flex the manus sideways laterally. Was this what you were talking about with Elaphrosaurus? It looks like it has a version of it. Did it have elongated dorsal condyles in any way?  Actually, I'm pretty sure that both the condyles are not as distal in this group, but it seems not to be a homologous trait. Of course, I'm probably completely wrong  :-)  In any respect, do we have an idea when the elongation of the dorsal condyle happ! en! ! s?

Well, my mind is fried for the night. Thanks again for the info. It was a great help.