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Re: Deltopectoral Crests and Condyles on the Humeri & Re: [Sub]Arctometatarsalia

MSN is having problems, so the following two messages sent by the
other Mickey got bounced to me:

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From: "Mickey_Mortimer11" <Mickey_Mortimer11@email.msn.com>
To: <dinosaur@usc.edu>
Subject: Re: Deltopectoral Crests and Condyles on the Humeri
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:55:36 -0800

MariusRomanus@aol.com wrote-

> When those analyses were done, were multistate characters
> implemented?  Who has actually shown multistate characters in their
> matrixes? If they are done at all, how often are they performed? I
> seriously don't think I've ever come across any, especially for the
> condyles on the humeri.

Sure they are.  For instance, Norell et al.'s (2001) analysis of
coelurosaur phylogeny included 40 characters out of 205 that had more
than two states.  Holtz, Sereno, Forster et al., Rauhut and many others
do too.  No one's used multistate codings for the cranial extent of the
humeral distal condyles yet, but that character needs a lot of work

Mickey Mortimer

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From: "Mickey_Mortimer11" <Mickey_Mortimer11@email.msn.com>
To: <dinosaur@usc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sub]Arctometatarsalia
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:55:40 -0800

Nick Gardner wrote

> I wasn't aware that oviraptorids had subarctomets. I "thought" that
> caenagnathids had arctomets but now I'm not sure. Could someone clear up
> what taxa have subarctomets and which that have arctomets and those that
> have hyperarctomets?>

They don't.  They have non-arctometatarsalian metatarsi.
Non- Deltadromeus, Nedcolbertia, Coelurus, Compsognathus, Sinosauropteryx,
Ornitholestes, Harpymimus?, Segnosauria, Oviraptoridae, Alvarezsaurus,
Protarchaeopteryx, Deinonychus, Velociraptor, Bambiraptor, Achillobator,
Rahonavis, Archaeopteryx, Confuciusornithidae, Enantiornithines,
Patagopteryx, Ornithurae, Yandangornis
Sub- "Ginareemimus", Caudipteryx, Sinovenator, Sinornithosaurus, Microraptor
Arcto- Tyrannosauridae, Garudimimus, Ornithomimidae, Caenagnathidae, derived
Hyper- Avimimus, Mononykinae

Jaime Headden wrote-

>   The subarctomet pes is properly applied to those taxa which bear a
> pinched third metatarsal between the second and fourth, but is not
> occluded from expression on the extensor or flexor surfaces of the
> metatarsus itself. In this manner, the subarctomet pes is found in
> Oviraptoridae, *Caudipteryx*, *Velociraptor* and *Deinonychus*,
> *Nedcolbertia*, the unnamed Arkansas pes (in the *Nedcolbertia* paper),
> and probably *Ornitholestes* as well.

The term "subarctometatarsalian" has only been used in print once to my
knowledge, in the Sinovenator paper-
"..the foot resembles more closely the subarctometatarsalian condition seen
in the basal dromaeosaurid Sinornithosaurus than the non-arctometatarsalian
As this refers to the extremely narrowed, but not quite proximally excluded
third metatarsal, oviraptorids, dromaeosaurids and such are excluded.
The "unnamed Arkansas pes" is named "Arkansaurus fridayi", though still

>   *Archaeopteryx* and other Aves are not arctomet, subarctomet, or
> hyperarctomet in any fashion. This is a reversal under nearly any possible
> position for these taxa within Coelurosauria.

Archaeopteryx hasn't developed the non-constricted third metatarsal seen in
pygostylians and Yandangornis.

Mickey Mortimer
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