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RE: Walking Rex Paper

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dinosaur@usc.edu [mailto:owner-dinosaur@usc.edu]On Behalf Of R. 
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:02 PM
To: Dinosaur Mailing List
Subject: RE: Walking Rex Paper

<<If the situation was different, I would have posted this on the list for one 
and all to read and then beat me.>>

Judging by this comment, I don't think he wanted the post on list, Tracy.<<

Hmmm, did he email YOU  or ME to put it on the list?

Tracy said:
<<I suppose for me to get listened to I'll have to get a PhD.>>

No, just read the paper carefully before you comment on it.  Afterall, aren't 
you the one who advocates looking at actual specimens and reading stuff 
carefully, not just acting on internet hearsay?

Your are of course correct. BUT I HAVE LOOKED AT TYRANNOSAUR SKELETONS!!!! I 
have also drawn dozens and dozens of T. rex skeletons and skeletal elements. I 
have looked at the skeletons in several museums, I know of where I speak.

Randall Irmis<<

Ok, now onto other things, I have the paper I have the paper and hear are my 
First, the illustration of T. rex in figure 1 isn't a T. rex! It's a rip off of 
G. Paul's Dasplateosaurus (Different animal that they're sitting, not good for 
credit. Jack Horner did the same thing in his talk, wrong animal). Truthfully, 
the math etc is over my head. I have no problem with a slower moving T. rex. 
What I have a problem in is the misinterpreted limb movement (This has gone on 
for years so I know all about it). Lets look at the legs shall we? In theropods 
the distal end is flat and vertical, this is the area where it 'attaches' to 
the lower leg, in birds, it is rounded and at a nearly perpendicular to it. The 
femur orientation in birds is nearly vertical because of it. The femur in birds 
moves up and down and the lower leg does the majority of work. The authors use 
the same orientation in their model, see fig 1 and 2. In fact look at fig. 2; 
because of this the pubis is much lower to the ground. You'd really have to 
worry about that because that brings the whol!
e !
animal closer to the ground. If tyrannosaurs did have their femur held in the 
same way as birds then the femur would be shorter, the ilia wouldn't be tightly 
pressed, the tibia/fibula would be longer, the distal end of the femur would be 
rounded and nearly perpendicular to the lower leg, and it isn't. Look at the 
pelvis itself; the pubis is longer than the femur, not so in birds. The ilia 
are shorter than a 'blown' up chicken and would have been widely splade out. 
The pubis is wider than the ischia. If the leg was held in the same way they 
say, the femur would rub against the rib cage as the leg was moved up. And yes 
I can verify this by just going to the San Diego Natural History Museum right 
now and checking the same T. rex skeleton that they have. The leg was held more 
vertically, moved for and aft (and if they are right in their belief that if it 
did have it's leg held that way there would be less movement, ok), the back end 
of the pelvis is thinner and the leg wouldn't !
b against the body.
I stand by what I said before I read the paper, they are incorrect.

Tracy L. Ford
P. O. Box 1171
Poway Ca  92074