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Re: Details on SVP 2002 Part 1

Jaime Headden wrote-

>   Well, first off, *T. robustus* was made into *Janenshia* years ago,

Nope.  Not all robustus are the same Jaime.
Titanosaurus robustus Huene 1929 is what's later been called Saltasaurus
robustus and Neuquensaurus robustus, from Argentina.
Gigantosaurus robustus Fraas 1908 is what's later been called Tornieria
robusta and Janenschia robusta, from Tanzania.

> *T. falloti* was regarded by Buffetaut et al. as maybe similar to
> *Tangvayosaurus*, but was not referred in that paper, and was never really
> compared there.

The wording is awkward in the paper.  For example- "The derived characters
present in the new material ... are not consistant with its placement within
Titanosaurus genus as first done by Hoffet in 1942."  But the "Titanosaurus"
falloti remains are not listed in the referred material, though some
Mandschurosaurus? laosensis stuff is.

> *T. nanus* is *Pleurocoelus*,

Wrong again.
Titanosaurus nanus Lydekker 1893 from Argentina is not the same as
Pleurocoelus nanus Marsh 1888 from the US.

> and the others are
> essentially based on crap. Sorry, fragments and shards of peices of larger
> bones with concurrent titanosaurian bones between them, they might be
> diagnostic if we had more of them.

I agree that the teeth of Titanosaurus? rahiolensis are probably
indeterminate, but T. indicus, T? blanfordi and Iuticosaurus valdensis are
all based on caudal vertebrae.  Sauropod vertebrae can be quite diagnostic.

*T. madagascariensis* was, if I
> remember correctly, comprised of parts of two different grades of
> titanosaurs, and only the type can provide instability of the nomen. If
> the type is referred to *Rapetosaurus*, then *R. krausei* is sunk into *T.
> madagascariensis* as *Rapetosaurus madagascariensis*.

Exactly, or the undescribed saltasaurine could be ___________
madagascariensis, and I would be happy.

> *T. valdensis* has also been included in the
> brachiosaur-like *Pleurocoelous*.

Please get your taxa right Jaime.
Titanosaurus valdensis (Lydekker 1887) Huene 1929 is not the same as
Pleurocoelus? valdensis Lydekker 1889.

Mickey Mortimer