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Re: I used to lament... New try

I am sorry for the double posting if this got to the list members the first
time, but since it certainly did not reach the archives in a readable way I
make a new attempt. :-\

>> Furthermore, there have been some suggestions that 'Pan
>> troglodytes' is polyphyletic if not paraphyletic, the same
>> may be said about 'Gorilla gorilla'
>Really?!?!? All I've seen is that there are 4 subspecies of chimpanzee, and
>2 species of gorilla (Eastern and Western, each with, IIRC, 4 subspecies).

Because of the genetic distance between P.t. verus & P.t. vellerosus in West
Africa and the two eastern subspecies (troglodytes & schweinfurti) is was
hypothesised that eastern and western chimpanzees actually belonged to
separate species (with approx 1.5 million years since the split).
However, roughly one hundred years ago people were already discussing
whether the blackfaced tshego (troglodytes) and the maskfaced chimpanzee
(verus/vellerosus) were two species or one. At that time these subspecies
actually came in contact (afterwards the populations in the middle were
exterminated), and since every thinkable hybrid variant was met with in the
border zone it was concluded that it was only one species. But when did
genetisists care about publications that old...?