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Re: 19 Questions About Mickey's Analysis For Mickey

---Mickey Mortimer wrote:

Nicholas Gardner wrote many questions.

That's because I'm very good at that sort of thing. ^_-

Well, now I've changed some codings and added another character, so the
results are different.  Also, I wouldn't want to reveal all the data
supporting the nodes you asked about, as that would be a significant
fraction of my data, and I don't actually support much of my tree yet.
Here's the result of my newest runs, completely unconstrained.  I actually
like them much better than the constrained results, despite carnosaurian
tyrannosauroids and polyphyletic segnosaurs.

I have some thoughts on your tree at present, and they are presented below.

90% majority rule consensus of 100189 most parsimonious trees.

A question about this is, I've been setting it to find only the 100 most parsimonious trees (on your suggestion, IIRC) and I was wondering if that has an affect on the results. Have you checked this in your analysis? Also, how do you set 90% majority rule consensus trees in PAUP?

|  `--+--Allosaurus
|     `--+--+--Dryptosaurus
|        |  `--Bagaraatan
|        `--+--Tyrannosauridae
|           `--+--Eotyrannus
|              `--"Chilantaisaurus" maortuensis

Yeah! Paraphyletic compsognathids. Have you tried running NGMC 2124 as a separate OTU or are you only coding Sinosauropteryx after the original specimens (excluding NGMC 2124)?

               |  |  `--+--Patagonykus
               |  |     `--+--Alvarezsaurus
               |  |        `--Mononykinae

This position for Avimimus is not uncommon in your analysis. If you ever do publish, I'd be interested to see what supports it. ^_^

               |  `--+--"Grusimimus"
               |     `--+--Archaeornithomimus
               |        `--+--Pelecanimimus
               |           `--+--Harpymimus
               |              `--+--Deinocheirus
               |                 `--+--Garudimimus
               |                    `--Ornithomimidae
               |  `--Erlikosaurus
                  |--+--+--Caudipteryx zoui
                  |  |  `--Caudipteryx sp. nov.
                  |  `--+--Nanshiungosaurus
                  |     `--+--Protarchaeopteryx
                  |        `--+--+--Nothronychus
                  |           |  |--Neimongosaurus
                  |           |  `--+--Alxasaurus
                  |           |     `--+--Erliansaurus
                  |           |        `--Beipiaosaurus
                  |           |--Incisivosaurus
                  |           `--+--Caenagnathidae
                  |              `--+--Nomingia
                  |                 `--+--Microvenator
                  |                    `--Oviraptoridae

I'd like to advance that Therizinosaurus, Segnosaurus, and Erlikosaurus will be reunited with the other segnosaurs when you finish adding characters to your analysis. Also, Nomingia is an oviraptorid, as advanced by the original authors, no? What taxa are you coding your Oviraptoridae OTU on?

                     |  |--Pyroraptor
                     |  `--+--Sinovenator
                     |     |--IGM 100/44
                     |     `--+--Itemirus
                     |        `--+--Byronosaurus
                     |           `--+--Sinornithoides
                     |              `--+--Saurornithoides junior
                     |                 `--+--Saurornithoides mongoliensis
                     |                    `--Troodon
                     |--+--Microraptor zhaoianus
                     |  `--+--Utahraptor
                     |     `--+--+--Achillobatar
                     |        |  `--Variraptor
                     |        `--+--Saurornitholestes
                     |           |--IGM 100/1015
                     |           |--+--Velociraptor
                     |           |  `--+--Deinonychus
                     |           |     `--Dromaeosaurus
                     |           `--+--+--Microraptor gui
                     |              |  `--Cryptovolans
                     |              `--+--Unenlagia
                     |                 `--+--Sinornithosaurus
                     |                    `--+--NGMC 91
                     |                       `--Bambiraptor

I assume that the "birdy" deinonychosaurs are united in part by their bird-like characteristics, and therefore I'll suggest that they might cause Deinonychosauria (sensu your analysis) to become paraphyletic and they themselves ultimately become avialans.

Such questions are difficult to answer because although DELTRAN assures the
immediate node under consideration will have characters supporting the
topology, positions are also supported by characters in any number of deeper
nodes. So, in the case of carnosaurian tyrannosauroids, I would have to
check the Allosaurus + Tyrannosauroidea node and the Carnosauria node. And
tyrannosauroids may have reversed any synapomorphies of the latter node, so
I would have to check for that too. It gets even more complicated further
into the tree. Frankly, spending the time and energy on such questions,
considering the state of my analysis, isn't appealling at the moment, in
addition to the reasons listed above. Sorry about that.

Run both ACCTRAN and DELTRAN to see what characters are found in both, that way you know your unambigious synapomorphies. It's probably quicker than having to check within the deeper nodes.

Yes, and in my most recent run, it is ornithomimosaurian. Then again, Avimimus is the basalmost taxon to their sistergroup. So "Grusimimus" and Avimimus still aren't far apart. Even if I wanted to list support for nodes, I'd probably have to skip discussions of "Grusimimus" due to its basis in unpublished material.

Ah, I did not realize about the unpublished nature of "Grusimimus". *cough* Er... I guess I should have, the quotes and everything. hehe ^-^

Nick Gardner

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