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Re: How are columbiformes (doves and pigeons) related to psittaciformes?
Could you please give me the full bibliographical references for
Mayr and Clarke (2003), Mayr (2002), Mayr et al (2003), and Livezey and Zusi
I am sure I have an article of Mayr's - but I think it just discusses basal
Close relationships to owls or wood peckers seems to be what I am finding
most often in the articles I haVe gotten ahold of so far.
I was seriously wondering whether anything more than an odd shaped beak
supports Feduccia's assertion that parrots are actually descended from
pigeons+ADs- the tooth billed pigeon to be precise. He doesn't explain the
notion in either of his two books on bird evolution. If anything about
wing anatomy or something was there, I didn't see it.
----- Original Message -----
From: +ACI-Mickey Mortimer+ACI- +ADw-Mickey+AF8-Mortimer111+AEA-msn.com+AD4-
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: How are columbiformes (doves and pigeons) related to
+AD4- Dora Smith wrote-
+AD4- +AD4- I have come across several tables of bird phylogeny that state that
+AD4- +AD4- psittaciformes (parrots) and columbiformes (doves and pigeons) are
+AD4- +AD4- related - and placed in various diverse locations in the
+AD4- +AD4- scheme.
+AD4- Not believed to be true anymore. Mayr and Clarke (2003) found
+AD4- psittaciformes to be closest to coliids, then coraciids. Columbids were
+AD4- most closely related to pteroclids. Mayr (2002) noted similarities
+AD4- basal parrots (pseudasturids) and strigiformes. Mayr et al. (2003) found
+AD4- psittaciformes to be closely related to a Coliidae +- Piciformes clade.
+AD4- Columbiformes were not included in their analysis. Livezey and Zusi
+AD4- found psittaciformes to be closest to some coraciiformes, while columbids
+AD4- were next to pteroclids.
+AD4- +AD4- Explanations of this idea are so vague they do not even tell me if
+AD4- +AD4- evidence is genetic or morphological.
+AD4- +AD4- What can anyone tell me about what reason there is to believe
+AD4- +AD4- and columbiformes are closely related, and can anyone suggest some
+AD4- +AD4- sources on that subject.
+AD4- Mayr (2002) wrote- +ACI-Whereas some authors considered a close
+AD4- between Psittaciformes and either Cuculiformes (e.g. Gadow, 1893) or
+AD4- Columbiformes (pigeons and doves) (e.g. Mayr +ACY- Amadon, 1951+ADs-
+AD4- 1996), more recent studies resulted in sister
+AD4- group relationship between the Psittaciformes and a cluster of several
+AD4- recent taxa (e.g. Sibley +ACY- Ahlquist,1990+ADs- Livezey +ACY- Zusi,
2001 +IBM- the
+AD4- reference also gives a survey on the history of the classification of
+AD4- psittaciform birds).
+AD4- The Pseudasturidae are distinguished from other psittaciform birds in the
+AD4- morphology of several skeletal elements and it may be assumed that the
+AD4- Eocene taxon lacks many of the highly derived features, which obscure the
+AD4- relationships of extant Psittaciformes. Almost certainly, for example,
+AD4- derived similarities between the humerus of extant parrots and pigeons
+AD4- Stegmann, 1964) are due to convergence, as both the Pseudasturidae and the
+AD4- Eocene psittaciform birds described by Mayr +ACY- Daniels (1998) exhibit a
+AD4- different, presumably more primitive, humeral morphology.
+AD4- Of course, the remotely parrot-like beak of the toothbilled pigeon,
+AD4- Didunculus strigirostris, also does not support a close relationship
+AD4- Psittaciformes and Columbiformes as assumed by Feduccia (1980), because
+AD4- other pigeons as well as the Pseudasturidae and other basal psittaciform
+AD4- birds (see Mayr +ACY- Daniels, 1998) lack a parrot-like beak.+ACI-
+AD4- Mickey Mortimer