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Re: Velociraptorinae and Dromaeosaurinae 2



> Hi. I apologize for the delay. I was experiencing some troubles with the
> PC.

No problem.

After I read your post and this
> Also of interest http://dml.cmnh.org/2003May/msg00427.html

I can only say that there seems to be no satisfactory character or set of
characters that would differ Velociraptorinae from Dromaeosaurinae (and
vice versa) in enough precise way.
Am I right?
I guess I'll have to wait for some new discoveries :)

Thanks again.

---------
Filip Milovanovic

======================================================================

----- Original Message -----
From: <soto@adinet.com.uy>
To: <fmpaleo@verat.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 8:38 PM
Subject: Velociraptorinae and Dromaeosaurinae 2


> Hi. I apologize for the delay. I was experiencing some troubles with the
> PC.
>
> Well, in the traditional sense, Velociraptorinae included forms like
Deinonychus,
> Saurornitholestes and, of course, Velociraptor, while the only confirmed
> dromaeosaurine was Dromaeosaurus (some people stated that probable
dromaeosaurines
> were Adasaurus). Both Deinonychus and Saurornitholestes exhibit the
"velociraptorine"
> condition, with posterior denticles larger than the anterior ones (thus
> producing a high DSDI or "denticle size difference index", defined by
Rauhut
> and Werner, 1995).
> But remember, since Senter et al. (2004) the only velociraptorine is
Velociraptor,
> while Deinonychus and Saurornitholestes, along with Dromaeosaurus,
Utahraptor,
> etc., are dromaeosaurines. Microraptor, Cryptovolans (sinonymized with
Microraptor
> by Senter et al., 2004) and Sinornithosaurus are included in Microraptoria,
> the sister group of Dromaeosauridae.
> Also of interest http://dml.cmnh.org/2003May/msg00427.html
> See that Utahraptor has a DSDI around 1, like Dromaeosaurus, and that
"Microraptor
> and Cryptovolans lack anterior serrations, so
> cannot have their DSDI's measured".
>
> >-- Mensaje original --
> >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:02:23 +0100 (CET)
> >Subject:
> >From: fmpaleo@verat.net
> >To: soto@adinet.com.uy
> >Cc: dinosaur@usc.edu
> >
> >
> >Thanks! It really helps!
> >But, what about Deinonychus? Are its teeth known?
> >And Saurornitholestes? Or theese are _incertae sedis_?
> >
> >All the best,
> >Filip Milovanovic
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <soto@adinet.com.uy>
> >To: <fmpaleo@verat.net>
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 8:15 PM
> >Subject: Re: Velociraptorinae & Dromaeosaurinae
> >
> >
> >> Dear Filip,
> >> In the traditional sense, velociraptorine teeth are those which
denticles
> >> greatly differ in size (i.e. the posterior ones are bigger).
Furthermore,
> >> the denticles are hooked and points toward the tip of the tooth. The
> mesial
> >> (or anterior) carina follows the midline of the tooth.
> >> In dromaeosaurines, the anterior and posterior denticles are subequal.
> >The
> >> denticles are chisel-like. Finally, the mesial (or anteior) carina
twists
> >> lingually not far from the tip of the tooth.
> >> See Currie et al. (1990) in "Dinosaur Systematics: Perspectives and
> >Approaches",
> >> pp. 107-125" for illustrations, and Currie (1995) in Journal of
Vertebrate
> >> Paleontology 15(3):576-591 for other characters.
> >> However, Senter et al. (2004) redefined both subfamilies. It appears
> now
> >> that bigger posterior denticles and hooked denticles diagnoses (if I
> recall
> >> correctly) the clade Microraptoria + Dromaeosauridae. Within
> >Dromaeosauridae,
> >> Velociraptorinae sensu Senter et al. includes only Velociraptor. Within
> >> Dromaeosaurinae, Dromaeosaurus and Utahraptor have subequal denticles
> that
> >> are not hooked, wich may constitutes reversals. Senter et al. (2004)
> don't
> >> even mention the lingual twist of the anterior carina.
> >> Hope this helps.
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Matias Soto
> >>
>
>