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RE: Quicksand



Sorry, but the Tarzan quicksand actually is a mixture of shredded cork
in a small pond (watch closely next time). True quicksand requires water
to be pushing upwards at a small spot (called dewatering) in order to
keep the sand grains buoyant. There is no such thing as dry "quicksand"
either because the sand grains are too heavy to be buoyed by air. Movies
are full of hokey things (which is why you should never go to the movies
with me as I will point them out). It does not mean it is true.

And no "Whatever took Romeo and Juliette down had to have been pretty
much instant." Read my pdf describing the specimens:
https://scientists.dmns.org/sites/kencarpenter/PDFs%20of%20publications/
theropod%20predation.pdf

Kenneth Carpenter, Ph.D. 
Curator of Lower Vertebrate Paleontology 
and Chief Preparator 
Department of Earth Sciences 
Denver Museum of Nature & Science 
2001 Colorado Blvd. 
Denver, CO 80205 USA

Ken.Carpenter@DMNS.org
ph: 303-370-6392/ or 6403 
fx: 303-331-6492 

for PDFs of my reprints, info about the Cedar Mtn. Project, etc. see:
https://scientists.dmns.org/sites/kencarpenter/default.aspx
for fun, see also:
http://dino.lm.com/artists/display.php?name=Kcarpenter


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Simpson [mailto:deathspresso@yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 1:34 PM
> To: Ken Carpenter; aidan_karley@yahoo.co.uk; dinosaur@usc.edu
> Subject: Quicksand
> 
> 
> 
> --- Ken.Carpenter@dmns.org wrote:
> 
> > Since the sediments encasing the Proto and Veloc are eolian (wind 
> > blow), the quicksand scenario doesn't work. Quicksand 
> doesn't work in 
> > real life either, except in old Tarzan movies. I too have played in 
> > quicksand. It is seldom deep and animals doesn't get stuck in them. 
> > They do in the mud of drying ponds, but such sediments 
> become mudstone 
> > geologically.
> > There have been feet of various fossil vertebrates found 
> standing in 
> > such sediments (including a sauropod at Tendaguru).
> 
> Are we absolutly sure that quicksand is not dangerous?
> Are there levels of sand to liquid that would create the 
> classic 'I'm sinking and struggleing only makes it worse' 
> quicksand? Because the collective fear of quicksand created 
> by the Tarzan movies permiates throughout the land 30 years 
> after they were so regularly aired. 
> 
> What about dry quicksand? In Lawrence of Arabia and Mad Max 3 
> they both show an instance of someone getting suddenly sucked 
> under and not getting back out. Something like this could 
> have taken them down quick and held them in their battle pose.
> 
> Whatever took Romeo and Juliette down had to have been pretty 
> much instant. 
> 
> ADS
> 
> >  
> > Kenneth Carpenter, Ph.D.
> > Curator of Lower Vertebrate Paleontology and Chief Preparator 
> > Department of Earth Sciences Denver Museum of Nature & Science
> > 2001 Colorado Blvd.
> > Denver, CO 80205 USA
> > 
> > ph: 303-370-6392/ or 6403
> > fx: 303-331-6492
> > 
> > for PDFs of my reprints, info about the Cedar Mtn.
> > Project, etc. see:
> >
> https://scientists.dmns.org/sites/kencarpenter/default.aspx
> > for fun, see also:
> >
> http://dino.lm.com/artists/display.php?name=Kcarpenter
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > 
> > From: owner-dinosaur@usc.edu on behalf of Aidan Karley
> > Sent: Sat 7/23/2005 3:07 PM
> > To: Dinosaur MailingList
> > Subject: RE: Ichthyosaurus fossilised in mid-birth ??
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- Ken.Carpenter@dmns.org wrote:
> > 
> > > Since the topic of collapse of wet dunes keeps
> > coming up, I'll
> > > comment. Anyone who has walked on a beach know
> > that to progress
> > > rapidly, you walk on the wet sand, not the dry.
> > Why? Because wet sand
> > > sticks together. It is very difficult to get an
> > instantaneous
> > > collapse of the lee side of a wet dune. But a dry
> > collapse is more
> > > frequent as wind piles dry sand up until the angle
> > of repose is
> > > exceeded.
> >     There's a slightly different circumstance which I was 
> alluding to 
> > in a couple of my earlier mailings - where you have water travelling
> > *through* a sand body. The classic conditions for generating 
> > quicksand.
> > I had a ... memorable ... encounter with some when I was a student 
> > doing my daily jog along the beach when I discovered a patch of 
> > quicksand caused by seawater trapped behind a sand bar and draining 
> > through the sand as the tide went out. Being caught knee-deep in 
> > quicksand, an hour after sundown, in an Aberdeen winter, on 
> a deserted 
> > beach, soaked through and in a biting "sub-tropical"
> > wind, is just what
> > you need to drive Dr Trewin's tedious sedimentology 
> lectures deep into 
> > your metamorphic petrologist's mind.
> > > It then slides down rather suddenly. The model for
> > wet
> > > collapse was developed in the sand hills of
> > Nebraska, in some rather
> > > stable dunes. I would argue the analogy is wrong.
> > > 
> > > As for the Protoceratops and Velociraptor, there
> > is clear evidence
> > > that the two were dead at the time of burial
> >     Ah... kak interesant! But it still leaves a question of 
> how come 
> > they both end up dead while wrapped in each other.
> > 
> > > (see the PDF of my paper
> > > describing evidence of predation by theropods - a
> > paper that oddly
> > > was only briefly mentioned by Farlow and Holtz in
> > their review of
> > > predation by theropods)
> > 
> >     Opoenming the page as I type. Well trying to.
> > Someone needs to go
> > and hit the satellite dish again I think. Or your server 
> ... well I'll 
> > get it one of these days, just a bit sad and slower than 
> normal today.
> > Ah, life. Sheesh, I'd give my right arm to have normal 
> dial-up access 
> > from here, not this glacial junk. Well, a couple of fingers 
> maybe <G>
> >     You mean this one : Carpenter, K. 1998. Evidence of predatory 
> > behavior by carnivorous dinosaurs. Gaia 15: 135-144.
> > (513 KB) ...
> > Yeah, must be. Down-crawling now. Bedtime reading!
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Aidan Karley,
> > Aberdeen,
> > Scotland
> > 
> > 
> >        
> >        
> >                
> >
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> 
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