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RE: Cleveland Lloyd - predator trap?

The problem with disease and drought as killing mechanisms are that
individuals die over a span of time, thus their carcasses are scattered
across the landscape. In addition, there will be a range of
disarticulation, with those dying earlier being more disarticulated than
those dying later, prior to burial. As yet I do not believe that a
suitable killing mechanism has been proposed for many (but not all)
dinosaur quarries. This certainly applies to Ghost Ranch.

Kenneth Carpenter, Ph.D. 
Curator of Lower Vertebrate Paleontology 
and Chief Preparator 
Department of Earth Sciences 
Denver Museum of Nature & Science 
2001 Colorado Blvd. 
Denver, CO 80205 USA

ph: 303-370-6392/ or 6403 
fx: 303-331-6492 

for PDFs of my reprints, info about the Cedar Mtn. Project, etc. see:
for fun, see also:


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-dinosaur@usc.edu [mailto:owner-dinosaur@usc.edu] 
> On Behalf Of lzanno
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 1:28 PM
> To: john.bass@ntlworld.com
> Cc: 'dinosaur mailing list'
> Subject: RE: Cleveland Lloyd - predator trap?
> Quite correct about predator domination of SOME African 
> watering holes. 
> The implication, however, is not that there were no sauropods 
> or other large herbivores visiting the water hole, it is 
> rather that they may not for some reason have remained/died 
> at the site.  Whereas carnivores are far more succeptable to 
> succumbing to diseases such as botulism, from eating rotting 
> carcasses around the watering hole and disease may have 
> dessimated large numbers.  Herbivores, of course, would not 
> have suffered the same fate.  Similar cases of disease have 
> been attributed to other quarrys such as "Jack's Birthday 
> Site" (Varricchio, 1995), and a pleistocene quarry in Germany.
> Quoting John Hunt <john.bass@ntlworld.com>:
> > Cleveland Cliff wrote
> >
> > <The latest consensus, is that the Cleveland / Loyd was a watering 
> > hole.
> > The predators would bully themselves closest to the water in the 
> > drought season, and as the generations passed, more and 
> more allosaur 
> > skeletons would pile up and be preserved for the fossil record.
> >     This latest theory was presented by the University of 
> Utah folks a 
> > few years back.I believe they came up with it after 
> observing African 
> > watering holes.>
> >
> > Allosaurs bullying large Sauropods away from water seems as 
> likely as 
> > Lions bullying Elephants away from water now!
> >
> >
> --