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Re: Marjanovic: Wait for the papers: Hone, Atannasov

----- Original Message ----- From: "david peters" <davidrpeters@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 6:52 PM

Here's why the wait will be disappointing.

And you can say that without having read either thesis?

In an abstract Atanassov (2001) proposed a new Dockum Group archosaur as a pterosaur ancestor, but basal pterosaurs do not exhibit several characters cited by him: recurved serrated teeth, sculptured spine tables, a broad triangular snout and a high iliac blade.

Excuse me -- score four autapomorphies for Pterosauria. If two taxa are indistinguishable, they aren't sister-groups, they are identical.

The appressed metatarsus said to resemble Dimorphodon weintraubi (figure 6c) would also resemble that of Scleromochlus.

Which of course would fit the orthodoxy perfectly.

Hone's first paper conclusion is as follows [my comments in brackets]:

The results of the re-analyses of the supermatrix suggest that the Prolacertiformes should be considered the sister group to the Archosauria. [TRUE, if Hone meant the Archosauriformes. Otherwise he is saying Prolacertiformes would be closer to Archosauria than Proterosuchus and Erythrosuchus.]

Benton, who was among the authors, still doesn't like the use of Archosauria for the crown-group and keeps using it the traditional way.

The Pterosauria are not closely related to the Prolacertiformes [TRUE, not closely related to Prolacerta and kin, but still closely related to Tanystropheus and kin ] and should instead remain among the Archosauria [but where?] and probably [with what degree of certainty and on what evidence?] among the derived archosaurs [but where? There should be a series of sister taxa of descending similarity if a cladogram has been used]. However, the large amount of missing data for many taxa [which taxa? so vague is this statement] makes it difficult to confirm their true position [and so the card is played. Hone doesn't know, but, in the absence of evidence falls back on tradition].

He knows full well. We just need to wait for the publication of his thesis, to repeat myself for the 10th time.

PS I also wrote to D. Marjanovic and asked him to send those tracing back for reexamination. I have no idea what he is talking about, but I'm sure I will when the images jog my memory.

Well, I mean the post below, which I reposted maybe a year later, but recently the files all got deleted from my webspace, and I can't figure out how to upload them again. The web-publishing assistant integrated in Windows wants to hook me up to MSN, and I have Office 2003 on this laptop -- Office 2003 doesn't include Frontpage anymore, for completely unfathomable reasons.


Here are a few comments I made about some tracings of yours a few hours earlier:


While I am at it, let me repeat this suggestion http://dml.cmnh.org/2006Jun/msg00318.html, too.