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Re: hovering diversity (was Re: Ornithurine diversity)

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey Rowe;893-2446" <mrowe@lifesci.ucsb.edu>
To: <dinosaur@usc.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: hovering diversity (was Re: Ornithurine diversity)

I thought it would be
obvious from the ">>" that you didn't write the first part.  Sorry
that you found my words so objectionable that you felt a need to
disown them :-)

I didn't find them objectionable. I just didn't 'own' them.

What I'm saying is that red-tailed hawks, white tailed kites, and
american kestrels all frequent the area I'm talking about, but only
the hawks frequently kite.  The kites and kestrels "usually" use a
flutter stroke.

What I'm trying to say is that there is a limited range of windspeeds (ranging from no wind to about minimum glide speed) where the flutter stroke can allow hovering. When the wind is outside that range, they don't use it..

 The kestrels and kites could choose to hunt where the
hawks do but they choose an area where the air flow pattern is
different, and since that is what they *usually* do, I wouldn't say
they "resort" to it...  And that's what I mean about your statement
not matching the facts.

I think we're quibbling about terminology. The flutter stroke is just an unsteady mechanism that allows the speed at which the animals can hover to be extended to lower airspeeds. What I'm trying to say is that they don't use it when it doesn't work. For different species, the speed at which it works is different.

You sayin' they can't cruise a few hundred meters over toward the

No, that's not what I'm saying.

(no offense intended).

And none taken.