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Re: origin of bats/reply to D. Marjanovic




On Jun 20, 2008, at 2:11 PM, T. Michael Keesey wrote:

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 11:17 AM, David Peters <davidpeters@att.net> wrote:
DM wrote:

<<And *Nandinia* isn't even a civet. It's the sister-group of the rest of
Feliformia. If necessary, I can provide references tomorrow. (As I will for
the claims on LINE insertion... if I don't forget again...) >>


So Nandinia isn't the African Palm Civet? Everywhere else I look it is. Check Google.
David Peters

Just because people call it a "civet" doesn't mean it's a true civet. For example tree shrews, elephant shrews, and otter shrews are not true shrews, horned toads are not true toads, and North American vultures are not true vultures. Don't rely on vernacular nomenclature!

_Nandinia_ has been found as the sister group to all other feliforms.
In general, "classical" Viverridae has been found to be polyphyletic,
with euplerids (Malagasy carnivorans) and herpestids (mongooses)
closer to hyaenids and prionodontids (Asian linsangs; African linsangs
are still viverrids) closer to felids.



Yes, Nandinia is not your ordinary civet. But that's...o-k.
If it's a sister, as you say, then it's closer to civets than horned toads are to toads, etc. etc.
And maybe, just maybe, with further inclusion, civets will be found to be more inclusive than previously thought (witness Ptilocercus, Cynocephalus and bats which may all be included if they are ever tested together by anyone else).


What is your list of taxa?


Morganucodon, Megazostrodon, Eomaia, Kennalestes, Asioryctes, Myrmecoboides, Lepticis, Anagale, Notharctus, Tupaia, Ignacius, Plesiadapis, Gomphos, Vulpavus, Oodesctes, Miacis, Mustela, Martes, Vivvera, Nandinia, Protictis, Ptilocercus, Cynocephalus, Palaechthon, Pteropus, Icarnonycteris, Myotis, Rhinopomus, Nyctalus, Onychonycteris. (please forgive any typos).

David











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T. Michael Keesey
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David Peters davidpeters@att.net