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RE: Vancleavea campi - what is it? - not an archosauriform.

It seems to me that for the most part, David Peters is enormously civil. The 
phrasing may be off, and we may even disagree strongly and even come from this 
discussion exasperated at the unpublished refutations, but at least he is 
civil, and deserves the patience and tone in which it is given (at the least). 
This reply from Mike Taylor seems bornerline _ad hominem_. Could we at least be 
more civil with one another?


Jaime A. Headden

"Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969)

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn
from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent
disinclination to do so." --- Douglas Adams (Last Chance to See)

"Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a
different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race
has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or
his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion 

> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:52:45 +0000
> From: mike@indexdata.com
> To: davidpeters@att.net
> CC: dinosaur@usc.edu
> Subject: Re: Vancleavea campi - what is it? - not an archosauriform.
> David, do you really have SUCH contempt for Nesbitt, Stocker, Small
> and Downs? Are you really SO confident that your interpretation,
> which is based entirely on their work, is better than theirs? Does
> the possibility that they might just know what they're talking about
> not even enter your mind?
> Seriously, dude.
> 2009/12/5 David Peters :
>> One of the reasons why Vancleavea campi does not have an antorbital fenestra 
>> and upper temporal fenestrae is because it is not an archosauriform. It is a 
>> askeptosaurid thalattosaur and a sister taxon to the short-snouted 
>> Miodentosaurus. [Links below]
>> http://2007tga.cgu.org.tw/cdrom/Oral%20(PDF)/ST1-4B-06.pdf
>> http://www.ivpp.ac.cn/cbw/gjzdwxb/xbwzxz/200902/W020090813372748918302.pdf
>> The scales are still weird.
>> The neomorph bone between the orbits is nothing more than the ascending 
>> process of the premaxilla.
>> For those who still think you have to stare at a specimen in person to 
>> publish on it, well, now you see how that can prove to be a wee bit myopic.
>> David Peters
>> Refs:
>> Cheng, Y.-N., X.-C. Wu, T. Sato. 2007. A new thalattosaurian (Reptilia: 
>> Diapsida) from the Upper Triassic of Guizhou, China. Vert PalAsiatica 45: 
>> 246-260.
>> Nesbitt, S. J., M. R. Stocker, B. J. Small and A. Downs. 2009. The osteology 
>> and relationships of Vancleavea campi (Reptilia: Archosauriformes). 
>> Zoological Journal of the Linnaean Society 157, 814-864.
>> Parker, W G. & Barton, B. J. 2008. New Information on the Upper Triassic 
>> archosauriform Vancleavea campi based on new material from the Chinle 
>> Formation of Arizona. Palaeontologia Electronica 11 (3); 14A: 20p.
>> Wu, X.-C., Y.-N. Cheng, T. Sato and H.-Y. Shan. 2009. Miodentosaurus brevis 
>> Cheng 2007 (Diapsida; Thalattosauria): Its postcranial skeleton and 
>> phylogenetic relationships. Vertebrata PalAsiatica 47:1-20.
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