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RE: Novas, Age of Dinos in S.A., pg 203 figure D



 <958fcd230910131627k7fcb2bcfg650634d2c13a03ec@mail.gmail.com>
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Mike Taylor wrote:

<Impact sounds are produced not by force (weight) but by energy -- the sudd=
en deceleration of the foot hitting the ground hard=2C with kinetic energy =
transformed to (in part) sound energy. Animals just don't do that when they=
're walking (though obviously when running it's a different matter). Next t=
ime you see a herd of cattle walking along a dirt track=2C listen for the h=
ooves. They're not loud.>

=A0 But they do actually cause vibrations on the ground. Not only are these=
 distinct=2C they are noticeable for quite a distance.=A0 The concept of tr=
acking animals by placing your ear to the ground is not fiction=2C for exam=
ple=2C and despite not impacting the ground=2C a train is capable of produc=
ing enough force acting on the ground to cause it to vibrate for a very lon=
g distance so that it can also be "tracked."=A0 Unless you think this is al=
so fiction.

=A0 Also note that transmission of force causes the kinetic energy transfer=
 that vibrates.=A0 I was not=2C as far as I can tell=2C implicitly incorrec=
t.=A0 For example=2C electromagnetism is a _force_=2C yet it is also concep=
tualized at an inferred _energy_=2C and the same is true of gravity.=A0 Als=
o=2C kinetics of moving bodies produce force with transfer of energy=2C whi=
ch produce force.=A0 I am sure=2C given I am unenlightened on the technical=
 terms and phraseology (as well as the finer points on these) that I am pos=
sibly wrong.=A0 However=2C my understanding on this matter is that the very=
 act of stepping cause kinetic energy to be transfewred into the ground=2C =
which vibrates it.=A0 Stomp on a floor board or something and prove me wron=
g.

=A0 Cheers=2C

Jaime A. Headden

"Innocent=2C unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969)

"Human beings=2C who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from =
the experience of others=2C are also remarkable for their apparent disincli=
nation to do so." --- Douglas Adams (Last Chance to See)

"Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different lan=
guage and a new way of looking at things=2C the human race has had a dream:=
 to kill him=2C so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of lo=
oking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)





----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed=2C 14 Oct 2009 00:27:01 +0100
> From: mike@indexdata.com
> To: qi_leong@hotmail.com
> CC: dinosaur@usc.edu
> Subject: Re: Novas=2C Age of Dinos in S.A.=2C pg 203 figure D
>
> Impact sounds are produced not by force (weight) but by energy -- the
> sudden deceleration of the foot hitting the ground hard=2C with kinetic
> energy transformed to (in part) sound energy. Animals just don't do
> that when they're walking (though obviously when running it's a
> different matter). Next time you see a herd of cattle walking along a
> dirt track=2C listen for the hooves. They're not loud.
>
> 2009/10/13 Jaime Headden :
>>
>>  <958fcd230910130636l1b3c5d22n96e325fb76a126b9@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain=3B charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
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>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>
>>
>> Mike Taylor wrote:
>>
>>>> r lizard") and indeed Sauroposeidon and Xenoposeidon (Poseidon being t=
he Gr=3D
>> eek god of. among other things=3D2C earthquakes). I don't know of ANY an=
imal =3D
>> that makes a loud noise in normal locomotion -- elephants=3D2C for examp=
le=3D2C=3D
>>  walk very quietly -- and I can't think of any reason to expect that sau=
rop=3D
>> ods would have been any different. A loud noise means a strong and sudde=
n i=3D
>> mpact=3D2C which is NOT what you want to do to your feet if you weigh 50=
 tonn=3D
>> es.>
>>
>> Mike=3D2C
>>
>> =3DA0 I'm mildly interested in this line of thinking. Would you care to =
specu=3D
>> late on why or how a multi-tonne animal can move quietly despite the pot=
ent=3D
>> ial force it can generate with its movement?=3DA0 I have never been clea=
r on =3D
>> the mitigating properties of the organism (presumably=3D2C the fleshy pa=
ds he=3D
>> lp=3D2C but we are talking about animals with limbs [much less the whole=
 anim=3D
>> al] much closer to the weight of elephants here).=3DA0 As an analogue=3D=
2C the =3D
>> movement of a multi-tonne bus (around 30=3D2C I beleive) right outside m=
y apa=3D
>> rtment (second storey) causes the building to quaver=3D2C although I als=
o ass=3D
>> ume this is part of its disruptive airflow pulling behind it=3D3B this w=
ould =3D
>> also be analogous to not just a step impact but also a movement causing =
air=3D
>>  disruption and wake.
>>
>> =3DA0 Cheers=3D2C
>>
>> Jaime A. Headden
>>
>> "Innocent=3D2C unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969)
>>
>> "Human beings=3D2C who are almost unique in having the ability to learn =
from =3D
>> the experience of others=3D2C are also remarkable for their apparent dis=
incli=3D
>> nation to do so." --- Douglas Adams (Last Chance to See)
>>
>> "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different =
lan=3D
>> guage and a new way of looking at things=3D2C the human race has had a d=
ream:=3D
>>  to kill him=3D2C so we don't have to learn his language or his new way =
of lo=3D
>> oking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
>>                                          =3D0A=3D
>> _________________________________________________________________=3D0A=
=3D
>> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.=3D0A=3D
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/=3D
>>
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