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Re: Climate change vs BANDits

Let's try to make this about science, shall we.

First of all, check out the links in these two long list: http://www.skepticalscience.com/What-happened-to-the-evidence-for-man-made-global-warming.html http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/07/how_to_talk_to_a_sceptic.php and those in this short one: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/nothing_will_stop_the_never-en.php#comment-2263773
Will take a couple of days till you're through.

When you'll be back, I'll point out this http://www.wissenschaft.de/wissen/hintergrund/309737.html -- especially the second comment.

Then this bit of news: http://scienceblogs.com/islandofdoubt/2010/02/why_the_denial_camp_is_winning_1.php

Another list of recommended blogs:

A list of books for a general audience was posted on a blog recently, but I can't seem to find the thread anymore. I'll keep looking.

 I'd be careful citing Real Climate these days. Set up by those now
 discredited by Climategate,

Argumentum ad hominem.

Even the supposed base for that "argument" is false: the real scandal is Climategategate...

 including Michael Mann (of Hockey Stick infamy).



 "Most likely predominantly man-made?"

For crying out loud, he's a scientist, not a theologist.

 Debate not settled over whether the Medieval Warm Period was warmer
 than now?!

There was no global MWP. In some places, it was warm from 600 to 800, in others from 1000 to 1200, and so on and so forth... See also: http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2006/02/medieval-warm-period-was-just-as-warm.php

 The absolutely remarkable thing about Jone's latest comments is that
 he is effectively telling people what so many of us had been saying
 for years - that the Hockey Stick was bad science based upon dodgy
 temperature proxies

Suppose the paper by Mann et al. (1998) is all wrong. What impact does that have on the many papers that are more recent and come to very similar conclusions?

 and statistical sleight of hand by Dr 'I am not a statistician' (as
 he bizarrely said before the NAS) Mann .

Details, please. Surely you're not so naïve as to refer to the "trick to hide the decline"?

 And of course Jone's also refers to the Roman Climate Optimum around
 2,000 years ago (itself followed by a period of cooling).

These are tiny regional fluctuations.

 The natural peaks and troughs of normal climate variability of the
 last 10,000 years or so - including a possible Minoan warming and the
 well evidenced Holocene Climate Optimum - show that there is nothing
 out of the ordinary with the moderate degree of warming we have
 experienced over the last hundred years or so.

I forgot if it's 0.5 or 1 more °C that's necessary to get us back to the global average temperature of when the Sahara was green.

(This time, the Sahara may not go green, because there may not be enough rainforest be left in west Africa to supply the necessary evaporation.)

Also see this http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2006/02/it-was-warmer-during-holocene-climatic.php very short take on the "mid"-Holocene climatic optimum.

 (and we can trust this finding because it's based on the satellite data
 set from the University of Alabama Huntsville, and not NASA's
 endlessly "adjusted" GISS rubbish),

There are four sets of measurements of global average temperature. Two of them are satellite-based. All of them are public.

Finally, would you please stop writing "climactic" when you mean "climatic"? It makes you look like you're remarkably unfamiliar with the very topic you're talking about.