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RE: Lack of Running Giant Theropod Tracks



Cool thanks =)
 
BTW guys sorry about the typos: where I typed "arial phase" I meant "aerial" 
and it was supposed to be "tripling its stride" rather than "tripping"
 
Sim Koning

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> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 18:06:07 -0500
> Subject: RE: Lack of Running Giant Theropod Tracks
> From: tholtz@geol.umd.edu
> To: simkoning@msn.com
> CC: erikboehm07@yahoo.com; dinosaur@usc.edu
>
> I believe that the details are recorded in the Cambridge University
> Dinosaur Tracks & Traces volume. (However, my copy is at work, so I can't
> double check until Monday.)
>
> > To more or less get to the point, I remember watching 'Dinosaur
> > Attack!' on the Discovery channel (back in 99 I think) in which Jim
> > Farlow formed a hypothesis that the Paluxy trackway preserved a giant
> > theropod attack. Part of the show revolved around the fact that one of
> > the footprints is missing and that some (such as Bird) had speculated
> > that it was because the Acro/allosaur latched onto the side of its
> > victim. Farlow said that if that were the case there should be some
> > extremely distorted footprints (I also think there would be some
> > massive tail drag marks, especially considering the tail length of an
> > allosaurid). Jim and his colleagues then went on to posit that it was
> > likely a sort of skip or hop made in an attempt to keep pace or break
> > into a run. If that were the case, it would mean both of the
> > allosaurid's feet were off the ground at one point and that by
> > extension would be strong evidence that giant theropods could achieve
> > a fully arial phase in their stride (running). So even though we may
> > not have trackway evidence of giant theropods actually in the act of
> > running (for whatever reason) we *do* have possible evidence of a
> > giant carnosaur skipping or hopping off of one leg. However, there is
> > the possibility that the track is just simply missing as was already
> > pointed out, but then I'm left wondering why it's simply missing; I'm
> > guilty of begging the question if that is a likely explanation.
> >
> >
> > What I've been trying to find is a bird's eye view of the trackway so I
> > can see how far the supposed skip/hop was. I'm thinking that if this
> > animal could hop nearly an entire stride length on one leg it should
> > have also been able to double or tripping its stride while running,
> > which would put it somewhere between 20 and 30 mph (unless my math is
> > way off).
> >
> >
> >>>"do we have fossilized
> >>> tracks that show ANY animal running, or breaking into a
> >>> run?"
> >
> > I was under the impression that there is at least one case at Glen Rose,
> > and another example that may be a "dino stampede"
> >
> >
> > Sim Koning
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> >> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 00:43:20 -0800
> >> From: erikboehm07@yahoo.com
> >> To: dinosaur@usc.edu; pristichampsus@yahoo.com
> >> Subject: Re: Lack of Running Giant Theropod Tracks
> >>
> >> Aren't there some trackways of humans running in Australia, that
> >> supposedly show ancient shoeless aboriginees, on uneven ground, could
> >> almost match the speed of Usain Bolt running in the Olympics?
> >>
> >> --- On Fri, 11/26/10, Jura wrote:
> >>
> >> > From: Jura
> >> > Subject: Re: Lack of Running Giant Theropod Tracks
> >> > To: dinosaur@usc.edu
> >> > Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 8:58 PM
> >> > The first question that came to mind
> >> > when I read this subject line was: "do we have fossilized
> >> > tracks that show ANY animal running, or breaking into a
> >> > run?"
> >> >
> >> > I honestly don't know, but that would be the first place I
> >> > would look. If running trackways are rare (and I think they
> >> > probably are) then they probably tell us more about the
> >> > ecological conditions that preserve trackways (as Dr. Holtz
> >> > alluded to) and less about the actual capabilities of the
> >> > animals making them.
> >> >
> >> > Jason
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- On Fri, 11/26/10, Sim Koning
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > From: Sim Koning
> >> > > Subject: Lack of Running Giant Theropod Tracks
> >> > > To: dinosaur@usc.edu
> >> > > Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 5:00 PM
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Unless I missed a major discovery somewhere, we
> >> > have
> >> > > yet to find a trackway that proves that giant
> >> > theropods
> >> > > could run. What about the Paluxy River
> >> > > Acrocanthosaur/allosaurid trackway that is "missing"
> >> > a
> >> > > footprint on one side? It is ulikely that the Acro
> >> > was
> >> > > hanging onto the side of the sauropod, since there is
> >> > no
> >> > > change in the sauropod's gate, and there is no
> >> > distortion in
> >> > > the "hopping" print as one might expect. If the
> >> > > Acrocanthosaur (or similar allosauroid) was "skipping"
> >> > to
> >> > > keep pace, that would mean this huge animal hopped on
> >> > one
> >> > > foot (both feet were in the air at one point). Doesn't
> >> > this
> >> > > trackway then demonstrate that at least this theropod
> >> > had
> >> > > leg muscles strong enough to propel it into an arial
> >> > phase
> >> > > in its stride and was therefore capable of running?
> >> > How long
> >> > > was the hop le
> >> Couldn't you use the "hop" length
> >> > to
> >> > > calculate the force needed to propel a 4 to 6 tonne
> >> > animal
> >> > > through the air (on one foot) for that distance and
> >> > then use
> >> > > that data to help calculate potential run speed? I'm
> >> > sorry
> >> > > if this has been brought up already. I checked the
> >> > list and
> >> > > couldn't find much on this subject beyond paper
> >> > requests.
> >> > >
> >> > > Simeon Koning
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>