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RE: and origin of flapping






> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 14:26:43 +1100
> From: tijawi@gmail.com
> To: dinosaur@usc.edu
> Subject: Re: Deinonychus claw use and origin of flapping
> 
> Anthony Docimo <keenir@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> > Just like I would like evidence that goats would pwn theropods in every 
> > enviroment they occupied. rather than just "well goats
> > have mammalian spines and they can live in mountains and trees."
> >
> > if mammalian flexible spines were the vital ingredient, not only would 
> > birds not have evolved (bats would've instead), but the
> > mammals would have wiped out the dinosaurs long before the early Cretaceous.
 
> I'm really not sure what you're referring to here.
 
  that you keep saying theropods' bodies were hopelessly unable to ever cobble 
together a way to take flight (while mammals were), then it begs the question 
of why birds evolved at all - and we didn't just get earlier bats or more 
pterodactyls.
 
> But if you think
> I'm claiming that the morphology of the spine was the magic ingredient
> that allowed mammals to climb trees, no that's not what I'm saying at
> all.
 
in past discussions, when the question of why theropods couldn't live up there, 
you inevitably mention the flexibility of the mammalian spine.
 
 
> > and yet we don't find ibex or baby yaks in trees. (both are even better 
> > with those conditions than goats)

> Goodness gracious, what are you talking about? Goats have adaptations
> that allow them to live in topographically challenging terrestrial
> environments - such as cliff faces. These adaptations also allow them
> to clamber through branches as well, in a more-or-les opportunistic
> manner. It does not follow that any mammal that can handle narrow or
> elevated terrain *must* therefore climb trees.
 
 apologies; the way you were saying the the adaptations to do one, were the 
same as those allowing them to do the other, gave the impression you were 
saying that it did follow.
 

> > what do they have to... trees were mentioned initially and throughout, then 
> > (after initially) you mentioned the stiff spines of
> > theropods, then you later mentioned theropods couldn't handle uneven 
> > ground. ergo to me, hills.
> 
> I never said theropods couldn't handle uneven ground. 
 
 pretty sure you did, but okay.
 
> mentioning goats again) are specialized for handling extremely uneven
> terrain. That's why they are so adept in trees. Even I can climb a
> hill - but I couldn't scale a rock wall with what nature gave me.
 
 the ONLY time I said "rock wall"s is when I was telling you that I never said 
"rock wall"s.
 
I said uneven ground.