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Re: GSP statement on use of my dinosaur restorations (follow up)



Are not there any "Paleoartist Society"?

Surely such association would do better to protect the fellow
paleoartists rights.

[]s,

Roberto Takata

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Luis Rey <luisrey@ndirect.co.uk> wrote:
> I would like to add my two cents to this debate (that is getting
> increasingly muddled). It is also a reflection of the rather frustrating
> times we are living...
>
> Not long ago I saw in Prehistoric Times  that Safari had made a miniature
> exact replica of one of my Oviraptor paintings (to the last detail including
> color patterns, posture, etc). I was amused of course, but thought pertinent
> to send them a note saying that the least they could have done is to give me
> some credit... they wrote me back apologizing profusely and sending me two
> boxes of toys...
> I was amused so I had to let go of any further quarreling. Anything that
> makes me smile these days is a plus.
>
> However, what I don't find amusing is when scoundrel companies like Ticktock
> Media
> a) Hijack  quite a few pieces of my artwork, make several books with them
>  and I receive no payment (despite me repeatedly  sending invoices and
> threatening letters).
> b) Modify my artwork without permission. Usborne Publishing had done so and
> again in Ticktock Media,  a Photoshop idiot idiot dared to destroy the legs
>  of my Megatherium I'd done in order to "sit it down".
>
> These agencies know that legal actions require an amount of funds I do not
> have.  This is the kind of misuse of my artwork that I find intolerable, and
> here in England I think we are more at the mercy of these exploiters.
>
> I could continue with the list of atrocities. However, I would never
> consider asking for payment for "influencing" the work of many young or not
> too young artists, students and the lot... and academics know that I'm
> grateful if I get any payment if there is money available, but will gladly
> work for free for any of them. It is a privilege to get recognized that way.
> It is also important to keep the human perspective to things.
>
> I also find the field of scientific illustration tricky... is there any
> financial code for "fair" scientific usage of research? Where does the fair
> scientific reference usage finishes and pure personal "art and creativity"
> rights begins? I am not a PhD nor a professional scientist, but a good part
> of Greg Paul's work IS technical and IS science that might need to be used
> as reference. Are scientists going to start charging the artists for their
> efforts and services? Is "Giganotosaurus" going to become a brand? Should we
> be paying Mike Taylor for usage of one of "his" sauropods (after all he had
> done all the preparation and description of the animal)?
> I think everybody should at least be decent enough to credit the original
> authors and researchers (and normally it is done) if only out of respect.
> But can the public, students and artists >pay< them? Are we not in danger of
> general creative paralysis?
>
> I also think scientific work would be better remunerated in order not to
> have this discussion... but it never is isn't it?
>
> But regarding publishers and all those that >can< pay...I'm very much for
> syndicalism...any takers? Paleo Artists Of The World Unite?!
>
>
> On 8 Mar 2011, at 08:50, Jaime Headden wrote:
>
>>
>> I'd like to second Mike's comments. As a skeletal artist who has also been
>> published, although not to the extent of artists like Paul, Abraczinkas,
>> Hartman, or Hallett on this matter, I have endowed my work with the freedom
>> to be used in scientific discourse, without restriction aside from lack of
>> modification and with required attribution. I hold a Creative Commons
>> license on them, and this is declared therein. I also vary my skeletal
>> postures a fair amount, and prefer a flexible posture (especially as some
>> popular Paul-like postures tend to obscure features (maniraptorans restored
>> with hyperflexed limbs covering regions of the spine and ribs, or hips when
>> the limbs are long enough, etc.)).
>>
>> http://qilong.deviantart.com/gallery/5004771#/d26ztox
>>
>> Above is an example of a posture I like that is both artistic and gives
>> much room for adaptive figuring (Sereno-Abraczinkas style) as well as
>> reposturing (just clip out the limbs and move them as needed -- most of my
>> skeletals are preserved in large file formats and multiple layers).
>>
>> ---
>>
>> On another note, I would like to know why *Kryzanowskisaurus*
>> (*Kryzanowskisaurus hunti* {Heckert, 2002}) is in scare quotes; as the ref
>> below describes, it was validly named. Being a synonym should not dismiss
>> validity: *Brontosaurus* certainly rarely gets scare quotes.
>>
>> Heckert, A. B., 2005. *Krzyzanowskisaurus*, a new name for a probable
>> ornithischian dinosaur from the Upper Triassic Chinle Group, Arizona and New
>> Mexico, USA. _New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science Bulletin_
>> 29:77-83.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jaime A. Headden
>> The Bite Stuff (site v2)
>> http://qilong.wordpress.com/
>>
>> "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969)
>>
>>
>> "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a
>> different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race
>> has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or
>> his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a
>> Billion Backs)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 08:07:14 +0000
>>> From: mike@indexdata.com
>>> To: GSP1954@aol.com
>>> CC: vrtpaleo@usc.edu; dinosaur@usc.edu
>>> Subject: Re: GSP statement on use of my dinosaur restorations (follow up)
>>>
>>> On 7 March 2011 16:18,  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The basic rule needs to be that that an artist produce their own
>>>> skeletal
>>>> restoration based on original research. This would include using photos
>>>> of
>>>> the skeleton, or an illustrated technical paper on the particular taxon.
>>>> This
>>>> then goes into your files as documentation of originality, and you can
>>>> publish it.
>>>
>>> Some interesting stuff here, Greg, and I certainly understand your
>>> frustration at the way your style, which 20 years ago was unique, has
>>> increased its influence to the point where it's one of the standard
>>> styles of palaeoart. I am sure Charles Knight felt much the same.
>>>
>>> Still, I'm not sure I see why it should be unreasonable for other
>>> artists to use your reconstructions as a basis for their restorations.
>>> (Note: basis. I am certainly not advocating the kind of wholesale
>>> ripping off that gave rise to the "Krzyzanowskisaurus"
>>> reconstruction.) Would you, in the same way, advocate that
>>> palaeoartists making skeletal reconstructions should go and take their
>>> own photographs of the bones, rather than re-using those taken by
>>> other scientists and prepared as figures?
>>>
>>> To pick a topical example, if for some reason you wanted to
>>> reconstruct Brontomerus, would you feel obliged to take your own
>>> photographs of the ilium, scapula, etc. rather than using those at
>>> http://www.miketaylor.org.uk/dino/brontomerus/extras.html
>>> ? Of, if you feel the manipulated photographs should be exempt, then
>>> what about using prepared artwork of individual elements such as those
>>> of the Argentinosaurus vertebrae in Bonaparte and Coria (1993), as
>>> shown at
>>>
>>> http://svpow.wordpress.com/2008/01/08/the-revenge-of-the-controversial-hypantra-of-argentinosaurus/
>>> Should these also be unavailable for palaeoartists to use without
>>> explicit permission or payment? If not, could you explain what the
>>> difference is?
>>>
>>>> Do not pose it in my classic left foot pushing off in a high velocity
>>>> posture. Not because I am inherently outraged -- it would be rather nice
>>>> if not
>>>> for some practical issues. For one thing I have succeeded in getting
>>>> some big
>>>> payments for unauthorized use of this pose by major prjects that should
>>>> have known better. Aside from the financial issue, there are other
>>>> concerns if
>>>> you think about it. It is widely assumed that any skeleton in this pose
>>>> is
>>>> mine, but what if it does not meet my level of accuracy? The trust in
>>>> and
>>>> value of my work is degraded. There are gigillions of poses a skeleton
>>>> can be
>>>> placed in. Be original.
>>>
>>> I have to say this seems pretty outrageous -- the idea that a
>>> particular pose can be someone's intellectual property would seem
>>> laughable if it wasn't so serious. Or did I misunderstand and is this
>>> part a joke? If not, then I have to say it's enormously useful to be
>>> able to directly compare, for example, Scott Hartman's reconstructions
>>> at
>>> http://www.skeletaldrawing.com/
>>> directly with yours, seeing the differences in interpretation clearly
>>> because of the adoption of Greg Paul Normal Pose. I'd hate to lose
>>> that ability against the possibility that someone might wrongly think
>>> one of Scott's pieces was yours. After all, the goal of skeletal
>>> reconstructions (as opposed to life restorations) is primary to be
>>> scientifically useful, right?
>>>
>>> -- Mike.
>>
>>
>
> Luis Rey
>
> Visit my website
> http://www.luisrey.ndtilda.co.uk
>
>