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Re: Germany then and now



This thread and some of the responses (not all are below) 
remind me of Facebook:  there's a "like" button but no 
"dislike" button. 

Political correctness has so permeated our society that 
it's become almost impossible to discuss or even mention 
anything that isn't "nice" and "likable". People are 
programmed to pick up on keywords, and if any disallowed 
words are encountered, the reader immediately goes into 
"dislike" mode, stops reading, and skims the remainder of 
the article/letter/email with extreme prejudice looking 
for any other disallowed words. 

I find that more distasteful than the words themselves. 
Btw, i'm part German. 


--- On Thu, 9/29/11, Jason Brougham <jaseb@amnh.org> wrote:

> From: Jason Brougham <jaseb@amnh.org>
> Subject: Re: Germany then and now
> To: qi_leong@hotmail.com
> Cc: "Greg Paul" <gsp1954@aol.com>, "Dinosaur Mailing List" <dinosaur@usc.edu>
> Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 12:44 PM
>
> We can't be insulting whole
> ethnicities on this list. Let's be civil.
> 
> Let's not blame everyone in a language group for the
> political acts of people 60 or more years ago. Let's not
> assign personalities or tendencies to someone based on their
> national origin. 
> 
> Evolutionary theory has been distorted in the past to fit
> supremacist and capitalist ideologies, that is a legitimate
> field to debate: wherever we suspect that work done in these
> periods was distorted to fit political agendas.
> 
> It is not legitimate to stereotype all Germans as precise.
> I can find you some imprecise Germans and some super
> precise... I don't know, hippies? Americans? Spaniards?...
> if you want me to. Now, I have a great grandfather Friedrich
> and so I use the K word sometimes, but its different when we
> call each other that. But I don't just drop it in public
> without explanation. 
> 
> I will also remind you of anti-German violence in the
> United States during both world wars. Whole German language
> libraries were burned.
> 
> I am as antifascist a person as you will ever meet, 
litical tendency was not some innate flaw
> in some "German character". It runs through all societies.
> 
> 
> On Sep 29, 2011, at 1:30 PM, Jaime Headden wrote:
> 
> > 
> >   Where in the Mary Anning does one
> think that paleos are unaware of our deep history? We are
> familiar with historical elements of collection and are
> reminded of this in sharp detail any time anyone has to back
> track through a fieldbook from the 20s or before the
> beginning of the last century, who was in any way familiar
> with the collection programs in the south of England, in
> what is now Belgium and in northern Italy, collectors and
> prospectors travelling to European colonies abroad and
> arriving in Java and southern Africa. You think that we are
> somehow ignorant?
> > 
> >   Do you seriously think this is an
> adequate defense of your use of these throwaway terms, or
> your bigotry?
> > 
> >   I call your bluff, Greg: The use of
> the terms "Kraut" and "fascist" have in no way an element of
> "paleo history" to them in connection to Werner Janensch or
> Willi Hennig, regardless of whether they were members of the
> Nazis, and are only bigoted in the purest form, and this
> post an inadequate way to cover your tail on this score.
> It's come up before and you've been called on it before. If
> you want to discuss this, write a book and place these
> remarks (with evidence!) in there. Maybe some of us might
> actually pick it up. Until then, I think, it doesn't belong
> on this list.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> >  Jaime A. Headden
> >  The Bite Stuff (site v2)
> >  http://qilong.wordpress.com/
> > 
> > "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B.
> Medawar (1969)
> > 
> > 
> > "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger
> with a
> > different language and a new way of looking at things,
> the human race
> > has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to
> learn his language or
> > his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan
> (Beast With a Billion Backs)
> > 
> > 
> > -------------------------------
m: GSP1954@aol.com
> >> To: dinosaur@usc.edu
> >> Subject: Re: Germany then and now
> >> 
> >> 
> >> In a message dated 9/29/11 11:21:03 AM, paleeoguy@gmail.com
> writes:
> >> 
> >> << Get your measurements, Greg. That`s what
> this list is for. Please go
> >> 
> >> to WWII forum if you want to rag on 20th century
> Germany. >>
> >> 
> >> Although I can understand where some of this is
> coming from, in the end I
> >> disagree. There is a real danger to popular paleo
> pretending that the field
> >> has in a sense no deep history outside the rather
> cheerful tale we are
> >> normally presented. It is rather like how it is
> only recently being acknowledged
> >> that even the NE US was heavily dependent upon
> slavery until the early 1800s.
> >> I had no clue that the White House was built
> largely by slaves until fairly
> >> recently, or that early NYC was also built to a
> great extent by bonded
> >> humans.
> >> 
> >> Of course this list can include extensive
> discussions on paleohistory,
> >> especially the "fun & entertaining side" such
> as the famous Marsh-Cope feud and
> >> what it was like to work at Garden Park and Como
> Bluff in the 1880s. But
> >> what happened at Tendaguru? It was the largest
> dinosaur "mining" operation that
> >> I know of, involving hundreds of colonized
> laborers. What circumstances
> >> were they operating under? Where they happy to
> have the pay however minimal I
> >> suspect it was? Or were they in some way
> discontented or forced by the German
> >> colonizers? How did it connect with the notorious
> genocides underway in
> >> Africa at that time? And what happened when the
> Brits took over? Where they
> >> nicer, or worse? That the fate of all these
> Africans has been largely ignored
> >> in favor of the western oriented focus of
> paleohistory is not to the credit
> >> of the paleocommunity.
> >> 
> >> For example, is the circumstances that the
> Africans worked at Tendaguru
> >> covered at the new HMN exhibit? If not it should
> be researched and covered at
> >> the
This sort of thing has practical
> implications for modern paleo.
> >> By treating the past efforts of colonized peoples
> with more attention and
> >> respect the field may enjoy better relations with
> some current governments
> >> where resentment against the colonial period
> remains strong. Just waving it away
> >> as being typical of those olden days is not the
> best idea PR wise.
> >> 
> >> Likewise that some key German paleos were in deep
> with the Nazis is fair
> >> game for discussion. What I would better like to
> know is who did what and
> >> when. It's worth a book assumming it has not yet
> been done -- better than yet
> >> another tome on Marsh & Cope.
> >> 
> >> When I used the term Kraut for some Nazi era
> paleos I was just venting a
> >> little frustation about how bad some of the figure
> scaling is in the
> >> Palaeontolographica publication figures and text
> -- the Germans are supposed to be so
> >> meticulous after all -- and I did not expect any
> notice of it. But in
> >> hindsight the subject has greater import.
> Paleontology is not just about
> >> measurements and fossils, it is part of the
> greater human story for better or for
> >> worse.
> >> 
> >> GSPaul</HTML>
> >    
>         
>           
>   
> 
> Jason Brougham
> Senior Principal Preparator
> American Museum of Natural History
> jaseb@amnh.org
> (212) 496 3544
> 
> 
>