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Re: Germany then and now

Quite clearly, we can take PC too far. That's also true for ice cream:
you can eat until you puke. Doesn't mean ice cream is bad.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Jason Brougham <jaseb@amnh.org> wrote:
> The alternative to political correctness is bigotry.
> PC is no more than consideration for others.
> On Sep 29, 2011, at 3:27 PM, Paul P wrote:
>> This thread and some of the responses (not all are below)
>> remind me of Facebook:  there's a "like" button but no
>> "dislike" button.
>> Political correctness has so permeated our society that
>> it's become almost impossible to discuss or even mention
>> anything that isn't "nice" and "likable". People are
>> programmed to pick up on keywords, and if any disallowed
>> words are encountered, the reader immediately goes into
>> "dislike" mode, stops reading, and skims the remainder of
>> the article/letter/email with extreme prejudice looking
>> for any other disallowed words.
>> I find that more distasteful than the words themselves.
>> Btw, i'm part German.
>> --- On Thu, 9/29/11, Jason Brougham <jaseb@amnh.org> wrote:
>>> From: Jason Brougham <jaseb@amnh.org>
>>> Subject: Re: Germany then and now
>>> To: qi_leong@hotmail.com
>>> Cc: "Greg Paul" <gsp1954@aol.com>, "Dinosaur Mailing List" 
>>> <dinosaur@usc.edu>
>>> Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 12:44 PM
>>> We can't be insulting whole
>>> ethnicities on this list. Let's be civil.
>>> Let's not blame everyone in a language group for the
>>> political acts of people 60 or more years ago. Let's not
>>> assign personalities or tendencies to someone based on their
>>> national origin.
>>> Evolutionary theory has been distorted in the past to fit
>>> supremacist and capitalist ideologies, that is a legitimate
>>> field to debate: wherever we suspect that work done in these
>>> periods was distorted to fit political agendas.
>>> It is not legitimate to stereotype all Germans as precise.
>>> I can find you some imprecise Germans and some super
>>> precise... I don't know, hippies? Americans? Spaniards?...
>>> if you want me to. Now, I have a great grandfather Friedrich
>>> and so I use the K word sometimes, but its different when we
>>> call each other that. But I don't just drop it in public
>>> without explanation.
>>> I will also remind you of anti-German violence in the
>>> United States during both world wars. Whole German language
>>> libraries were burned.
>>> I am as antifascist a person as you will ever meet,
>> litical tendency was not some innate flaw
>>> in some "German character". It runs through all societies.
>>> On Sep 29, 2011, at 1:30 PM, Jaime Headden wrote:
>>>>    Where in the Mary Anning does one
>>> think that paleos are unaware of our deep history? We are
>>> familiar with historical elements of collection and are
>>> reminded of this in sharp detail any time anyone has to back
>>> track through a fieldbook from the 20s or before the
>>> beginning of the last century, who was in any way familiar
>>> with the collection programs in the south of England, in
>>> what is now Belgium and in northern Italy, collectors and
>>> prospectors travelling to European colonies abroad and
>>> arriving in Java and southern Africa. You think that we are
>>> somehow ignorant?
>>>>    Do you seriously think this is an
>>> adequate defense of your use of these throwaway terms, or
>>> your bigotry?
>>>>    I call your bluff, Greg: The use of
>>> the terms "Kraut" and "fascist" have in no way an element of
>>> "paleo history" to them in connection to Werner Janensch or
>>> Willi Hennig, regardless of whether they were members of the
>>> Nazis, and are only bigoted in the purest form, and this
>>> post an inadequate way to cover your tail on this score.
>>> It's come up before and you've been called on it before. If
>>> you want to discuss this, write a book and place these
>>> remarks (with evidence!) in there. Maybe some of us might
>>> actually pick it up. Until then, I think, it doesn't belong
>>> on this list.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>   Jaime A. Headden
>>>>   The Bite Stuff (site v2)
>>>>   http://qilong.wordpress.com/
>>>> "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B.
>>> Medawar (1969)
>>>> "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger
>>> with a
>>>> different language and a new way of looking at things,
>>> the human race
>>>> has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to
>>> learn his language or
>>>> his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan
>>> (Beast With a Billion Backs)
>>>> -------------------------------
>> m: GSP1954@aol.com
>>>>> To: dinosaur@usc.edu
>>>>> Subject: Re: Germany then and now
>>>>> In a message dated 9/29/11 11:21:03 AM, paleeoguy@gmail.com
>>> writes:
>>>>> << Get your measurements, Greg. That`s what
>>> this list is for. Please go
>>>>> to WWII forum if you want to rag on 20th century
>>> Germany. >>
>>>>> Although I can understand where some of this is
>>> coming from, in the end I
>>>>> disagree. There is a real danger to popular paleo
>>> pretending that the field
>>>>> has in a sense no deep history outside the rather
>>> cheerful tale we are
>>>>> normally presented. It is rather like how it is
>>> only recently being acknowledged
>>>>> that even the NE US was heavily dependent upon
>>> slavery until the early 1800s.
>>>>> I had no clue that the White House was built
>>> largely by slaves until fairly
>>>>> recently, or that early NYC was also built to a
>>> great extent by bonded
>>>>> humans.
>>>>> Of course this list can include extensive
>>> discussions on paleohistory,
>>>>> especially the "fun & entertaining side" such
>>> as the famous Marsh-Cope feud and
>>>>> what it was like to work at Garden Park and Como
>>> Bluff in the 1880s. But
>>>>> what happened at Tendaguru? It was the largest
>>> dinosaur "mining" operation that
>>>>> I know of, involving hundreds of colonized
>>> laborers. What circumstances
>>>>> were they operating under? Where they happy to
>>> have the pay however minimal I
>>>>> suspect it was? Or were they in some way
>>> discontented or forced by the German
>>>>> colonizers? How did it connect with the notorious
>>> genocides underway in
>>>>> Africa at that time? And what happened when the
>>> Brits took over? Where they
>>>>> nicer, or worse? That the fate of all these
>>> Africans has been largely ignored
>>>>> in favor of the western oriented focus of
>>> paleohistory is not to the credit
>>>>> of the paleocommunity.
>>>>> For example, is the circumstances that the
>>> Africans worked at Tendaguru
>>>>> covered at the new HMN exhibit? If not it should
>>> be researched and covered at
>>>>> the
>> This sort of thing has practical
>>> implications for modern paleo.
>>>>> By treating the past efforts of colonized peoples
>>> with more attention and
>>>>> respect the field may enjoy better relations with
>>> some current governments
>>>>> where resentment against the colonial period
>>> remains strong. Just waving it away
>>>>> as being typical of those olden days is not the
>>> best idea PR wise.
>>>>> Likewise that some key German paleos were in deep
>>> with the Nazis is fair
>>>>> game for discussion. What I would better like to
>>> know is who did what and
>>>>> when. It's worth a book assumming it has not yet
>>> been done -- better than yet
>>>>> another tome on Marsh & Cope.
>>>>> When I used the term Kraut for some Nazi era
>>> paleos I was just venting a
>>>>> little frustation about how bad some of the figure
>>> scaling is in the
>>>>> Palaeontolographica publication figures and text
>>> -- the Germans are supposed to be so
>>>>> meticulous after all -- and I did not expect any
>>> notice of it. But in
>>>>> hindsight the subject has greater import.
>>> Paleontology is not just about
>>>>> measurements and fossils, it is part of the
>>> greater human story for better or for
>>>>> worse.
>>>>> GSPaul</HTML>
>>> Jason Brougham
>>> Senior Principal Preparator
>>> American Museum of Natural History
>>> jaseb@amnh.org
>>> (212) 496 3544
> Jason Brougham
> Senior Principal Preparator
> American Museum of Natural History
> jaseb@amnh.org
> (212) 496 3544