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Re: Largest Camarasaurus specimens



Touche! 


Doing some number crunching with my GDI I find that doubling the volume of the 
neck and tail gives a mass of just under 35 tonnes (that would make the larger 
specimen around 50 tonnes). I don't know if that is a reasonable estimation, 
however. Increasing the volume of the the limbs alone by an extra 50% (and 
ignoring the neck and tail) gives a mass estimate of ~34 tonnes. So a mass 
around 35 to close to 40 tonnes for the "HMN SII" Giraffatitan might be 
reasonable, factoring in additional neck, tail and limb musculature (the 
presumably larger "HMN XV2" might have massed in excess of 55 tonnes in that 
case).



----- Original Message -----
> From: Heinrich Mallison <heinrich.mallison@googlemail.com>
> To: DML <dinosaur@usc.edu>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Largest Camarasaurus specimens
> 
>G reg Paul's dinosaurs are all anorexic, therefore using his drawings
> as a basis for GDI or so will lead to underestimates of the volume.
> ___________________________________
> Dr. Heinrich Mallison
> Abteilung Forschung
> Museum für Naturkunde - Leibniz-Institut
> für Evolutions- und Biodiversitätsforschung
> an der Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin
> Invalidenstrasse 43
> 10115 Berlin
> Office phone: +49 (0)30 2093 8764
> Email: heinrich.mallison@gmail.com
> _____________________________________
> Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
> Gaius Julius Caesar
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Zach Armstrong
> <zach.armstrong64@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>  Giraffatitan also had a lot more neck (which is a lot less dense and not 
> very voluminous) and a lot less tail. I got a mass of 31 tonnes for 
> Giraffatitan 
> doing a GDI off of Greg Paul's 1988 paper reconstruction (this used a 300 
> kg/m^3 density for the neck, 800 kg/m^3 for the torso and tail, and 1000 
> kg/m^3 
> for the limbs, with an overall average density of ~761 kg/m^3=0.761 kg/L). 
> The 
> largest specimens may have been a bit bigger, the "HMN XV2" 1340 mm 
> fibula listed by Paul might have massed ~44 tonnes if scale
 
>> 
>>  Greg's mass estimate is probably too high for C. supremus (23 tonnes 
> for a 18 meter specimen), but a 23 meter specimen scaled off of that would 
> give 
> a mass of roughly 48 tonnes.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: Heinrich Mallison <heinrich.mallison@googlemail.com>
>>>  To: DML <dinosaur@usc.edu>
>>>  Cc:
>>>  Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 4:42 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: Largest Camarasaurus specimens
>>> 
>>>  47t is high for Giraffatitan - I got 48 t using a (probably too high)
>>>  density of 0.8 kg/L. For Camarasaurus, being a bit more sturdy, I can
>>>  believe 80% of the weight of G. at a stretch. Thus, using a more
>>>  realistic density of 0.6 or 0.8 kg/L, you'd end up with at most 34 
> t.
>>>  ___________________________________
>>>  Dr. Heinrich Mallison
>>>  Abteilung Forschung
>>>  Museum für Naturkunde - Leibniz-Institut
>>>  für Evolutions- und Biodiversitätsforschung
>>>  an der Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin
>>>  Invalidenstrasse 43
>>>  10115 Berlin
>>>  Office phone: +49 (0)30 2093 8764
>>>  Email: heinrich.mallison@gmail.com
>>>  _____________________________________
>>>  Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
>>>  Gaius Julius Caesar
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 11:38 PM, David Marjanovic
>>>  <david.marjanovic@gmx.at> wrote:
>>>>>    Does any one have any references for the largest Camarasaurus
>>>>>    specimens (especially C. supremus). I've heard size 
> estimates of
>>>  23
>>>>>    meters long and 47 tonnes
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>   I have no idea, but I can say with a fair amount of certainty that 
> 47
>>>  tonnes
>>>>   for a 23-m-long animal th
>>  dicrous. 10 t, OK; 20 t,
>>>  OK;
>>>>   30 t, if it's proportioned like a sumo wrestler, why not. 47 
> t? No way.
>>>> 
>>>>   I guess this figure was derived by measuring the water 
> displacement of a
>>>>   commercial model that violated Holtz's First Rule of Skeletal
>>>  Restoration*,
>>>>   using the rounded density of an unspecified lizard.
>>>> 
>>>>   * "If the skeleton doesn't fit inside 
> 
>