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RE: First fossils of Tyrannosaurus (as Dynamosaurus) to be displayed at British Natural History Museum



Tyrannosaurus rex and Tarbosaurus bataar lived millions of years apart:
very latest Maastrichtian vs. early Maastrichtian. It is as likely as a
hybrid between modern humans and Sahelanthropus.

That said, had they encountered, quite likely that if you had a time
machine they COULD hybridize. Hybrids are not uncommon in nature. Hell,
despite what everyone is taught in BIOL101, *fertile* hybrids are actually
not uncommon in nature.

As to matching up specimens: the typological folks out there have to learn
to accept that you are obliged to eliminate the following prior to
asserting a new taxon (or in this case, a hybrid):
* Individual variation: no two individuals are identical
* Ontogenetic variation: no two growth stages are identical
* Sexual variation
* Geographic variation
* Stratigraphic variation
and the biggie after individual variation,
* Taphonomic variation

On Sun, September 1, 2013 2:50 pm, dale mcinnes wrote:
> On another note ..
>
> Does anyone still think about possible hybridization between T. rex
> and T.[Tarbosaurus] bataar ?!? I can't seem to remember but .. I seem
> to recall that at least one good specimen [? skull] did not match up
> within the variations ascibed to all other T. rex specimens.
>
> Perhaps Thomas could enlighten me/ us on this one ?!?
>
> I'll check out that other publication Thomas. Thanks.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 11:28:23 -0700
>> From: bcreisler@gmail.com
>> To: tholtz@umd.edu; dinosaur@usc.edu
>> Subject: Re: First fossils of Tyrannosaurus (as Dynamosaurus) to be
>> displayed at British Natural History Museum
>>
>> From: Ben Creisler
>> bcreisler@gmail.com
>>
>> Another slight inaccuracy to note: "it remains the only T. rex fossil
>> to exist outside of the United States." Of course, T. rex has been
>> found in Canada as well as the United States:
>>
>> http://okanagansisss.wordpress.com/2007/10/13/tyrannosaurus-rex-the-canadian-specimens/
>>
>>
>> To be fair, the specimens of Manospondylus (a single vertebra) and
>> "Ornithomimus" grandis (some foot bones) would likely not be
>> considered diagnostic by modern standards. The type specimen for
>> Dynamosaurus (minus the ankylosaur armor) would by itself be an
>> acceptable type specimen by modern standards.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Thomas R. Holtz, Jr. <tholtz@umd.edu>
>> wrote:
>>> Dale beat me to it. Yes, both Cope's Manospondylus type and Marsh's
>>> Lancian specimens of Ornithomimus grandis are T. rex specimens that
>>> predate the Dynamosaurus type.
>>>
>>> As for the Mano quarry, check out:
>>> Breithaupt, B.H., E.H. Southwell & N.A. Matthews. 2008. Wyoming's
>>> <i>Dynamosaurus imperiosus</i> and other early discoveries of
>>> <i>Tyrannosaurus rex</i> in the Rocky Mountain West. in the Indiana
>>> Univ.
>>> Press Tyrannosaurus rex: the Tyrant King volume.
>>>
>>> On Sun, September 1, 2013 1:55 pm, dale mcinnes wrote:
>>>> So .. whatever happened to Manospondylus gigas ?!?
>>>>
>>>> I heard that the original quarry was relocated and that the large
>>>> centrum
>>>> taken by Brown was indeed part of that [old/ new] specimen. Any
>>>> updates
>>>> ?!?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 09:18:29 -0700
>>>>> From: bcreisler@gmail.com
>>>>> To: dinosaur@usc.edu
>>>>> Subject: First fossils of Tyrannosaurus (as Dynamosaurus) to be
>>>>> displayed at British Natural History Museum
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Ben Creisler
>>>>> bcreisler@gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A news story with video about the historically first specimen of
>>>>> Tyrannosaurus found and later sold to the British Natural History
>>>>> Museum. This was the specimen originally named Dynamosaurus
>>>>> imperiosus
>>>>> by Osborn.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/dinosaurs/10278054/How-Tyrannosaurus-rex-was-nearly-more-of-a-mouthful.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
>>> Email: tholtz@umd.edu Phone: 301-405-4084
>>> Office: Centreville 1216
>>> Senior Lecturer, Vertebrate Paleontology
>>> Dept. of Geology, University of Maryland
>>> http://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/
>>> Fax: 301-314-9661
>>>
>>> Faculty Director, Science & Global Change Program, College Park
>>> Scholars
>>> http://www.geol.umd.edu/sgc
>>> Fax: 301-314-9843
>>>
>>> Mailing Address: Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
>>> Department of Geology
>>> Building 237, Room 1117
>>> University of Maryland
>>> College Park, MD 20742 USA
>


Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
Email: tholtz@umd.edu   Phone: 301-405-4084
Office: Centreville 1216
Senior Lecturer, Vertebrate Paleontology
Dept. of Geology, University of Maryland
http://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/
Fax: 301-314-9661

Faculty Director, Science & Global Change Program, College Park Scholars
http://www.geol.umd.edu/sgc
Fax: 301-314-9843

Mailing Address:        Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
                        Department of Geology
                        Building 237, Room 1117
                        University of Maryland
                        College Park, MD 20742 USA