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Re: ornithopodans vs ornithopods



Correction (courtesy of an off-list message - many thanks): The
singular for theropod in German is 'der Theropode' and 'ein Theropode'
for the definite and indefinite articles, respectively.  Plural is die
Theropoden.  Ich entschuldige mich für mein schlechtes Deutsch.

On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Tim Williams <tijawi@gmail.com> wrote:
> William Gearty <williams.gearty@yale.edu> wrote:
>
>
>> Well, first, it is probably important to note that Sauropoda and
>> Saurpodomorpha are different phylogenetic groups, as are Ornithopoda and
>> Ornithopodamorpha.
>
>
> I don't know 'Ornithopodamorpha' had ever been formally proposed.
> Also, with current phylogenies paring back the 'traditional'
> membership of Ornithopoda (such that many 'traditonal' ornithopods are
> now considered basal neornithischians), it's unlikely that
> Ornithopodamorpha will ever get a guernsey.
>
>
>> I would think it would make everything much easier to stick to only one
>> suffix to indicate the casual case of a formal group.
>
>
> I think in some cases the choice of suffix has become a matter of
> either tradition or personal preference.  However, what's important is
> that the spelling of the clade name is inviolate: Dinosauria,
> Theropoda, Avialae, Ornithurae, etc.  In English, derivative nouns
> change according to taste.  So we may have both "dinosaurians" and
> "dinosaurs", although the latter seems to be overwhelmingly preferred.
> For Avialae, I've seen both "avialans" and "avialians" in usage - I
> don't think there is a 'standard' conversion of the clade name to a
> common noun.  For Ornithurae, I've seen both "ornithurans" and
> "ornithurines", with the latter preferred by most people - although I
> personally prefer "ornithurans" (as well as "tetanurans" over
> "tetanurines").  Then again, I also use "enantiornithean" in
> preference to "enantiornithine" for a member of clade Enantiornithes,
> since "enantiornithine" could be applied to a theoretical
> 'subfamily'-level clade Enantiornithinae; but as long as it's clear
> that Enantiornithes is the clade being denoted, there shouldn't be a
> problem.
>
>
> BTW, this suffix problem is not an issue for all languages.  In
> German, for example, a member of clade Theropoda will always be
> "Theropoden" - and the plural will be the same (although the preceding
> definite article will change: die Theropoden).
>
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 6:16 PM, Jay <sappororaptor@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> This question regards use of non-formal names for groups/clades, which I
>> hope can be clarified.
>>
>> When discussing a natural group, such as Sauropodomorpha, the typical
>> reference to it in most contexts seems to be simply by appending an 's' to
>> the end.
>>
>> E.g., "there are several sauropods known from the Morrison Formation"
>> "..the sauropodomorphs Plateosaurus and Unaysaurus are sister taxa"
>> "Unlike the known bipedal ornithopods from DPF, the pachycephalosaurs
>> are...
>>
>> However, I've very occasionally come across in the published literature a
>> few cases where an '-ans' is suffixed to the formal group name to derive
>> the casual use - i.e., sauropodans, ornithopodans, sauropodomorphans.
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know 1, why one style if any might be incorrect; 2, and if
>> both are acceptable, then what if any are the circumstances where one style
>> must only be used over the other.
>>
>> I can see a use of the '-ans' suffix specifically as an adverb when
>> referring to phylogenetic outgroups -- e.g., "...Lesothosaurus is a
>> non-ornithopodan ornithischian" -- but don't see why this must be so.
>>
>>
>> Note that in regards to Dinosauria, I'm not too concerned about choice use
>> of 'dinosaurs' vs 'dinosaurians'
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> William Gearty
> Yale University | Branford College '14
> B.S. Geology and Geophysics: Paleontology and Geobiology
> about.me/wgearty
>
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> On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:23 AM, William Gearty <william.gearty@yale.edu> 
> wrote:
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