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Re: Kulindadromeus "feathers" questioned by Theagarten Lingham-Soliar



Godefroit et al. did not pull punches on their response, and dealt
with TLS's comments abruptly, assuredly, and accurately. TLS makes
some generalized claims and basically tried to map the idea of the
structures as collagen fibre bundles to any sort of
parallel-structures bundles, and in the process, as he's done before,
ignored any contravening points. Godefroit et al. firmly reminded him
of these points:

1. They are regionalized, and in all specimens only preserve in a
specific form and area. Random collagen shouldn't.
2. They are evenly spaced, evenly thick, and evenly distributed where
they are present. Random fiber bundles are clustered,
irregularly-spaced, and tend to form a mesh of latticed layers. No
layering, and no cross-fibers present.
3. They originate at a specific point, and do not continue further
than basally, which creates a specific length to each set. Collagen
bundles should preserve continuously through the skin, and when
irregular not be predictable in where and how long they are.

TLS is wrong (surprise!).

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:57 PM, Dann Pigdon <dannj@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> In a way, it's good that there are people out there playing Devil's 
> Advocate*. Detailed responses to such
> counterclaims can serve to strengthen the original position, and will often 
> bring to light information that
> couldn't be included in the original paper for whatever reason (time 
> constraints, word limits, etc).
>
>
>
> (* even if that's not their intention)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 24th, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Jaime Headden <jaimeheadden@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>> *sigh*
>
>>
>
>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Ben Creisler <bcreisler@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Ben Creisler
>
>> > bcreisler@gmail.com
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> > In the new issue of Science:
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> > Theagarten Lingham-Soliar (2014)
>
>> > Comment on “A Jurassic ornithischian dinosaur from Siberia with both
>
>> > feathers and scales”
>
>> > Science  346 (6208): 434
>
>> > DOI: 10.1126/science.1259983
>
>> > http://www.sciencemag.org/content/346/6208/434.2.abstract
>
>> >
>
>> > Godefroit et al. (Reports, 25 July 2014, p. 451) reported scales and
>
>> > feathers, including “basal plates,” in an ornithischian dinosaur.
>
>> > Their arguments against the filaments being collagen fibers are not
>
>> > supported because of a fundamental misinterpretation of such
>
>> > structures and underestimation of their size. The parsimonious
>
>> > explanation is that the filaments are support fibers in association
>
>> > with badly degraded scales and that they do not represent early
>
>> > feather stages.
>
>> >
>
>> > ==
>
>> >
>
>> > Pascal Godefroit, Sofia M. Sinitsa, Danielle Dhouailly, Yuri L.
>
>> > Bolotsky, Alexander V. Sizov, Maria E. McNamara, Michael J. Benton,
>
>> > and Paul Spagna (2014)
>
>> > Response to Comment on "A Jurassic ornithischian dinosaur from Siberia
>
>> > with both feathers and scales".
>
>> > Science 346 (6208): 434
>
>> > DOI: 10.1126/science.1260146
>
>> > http://www.sciencemag.org/content/346/6208/434.3.abstract
>
>> >
>
>> > Lingham-Soliar questions our interpretation of integumentary
>
>> > structures in the Middle-Late Jurassic ornithischian dinosaur
>
>> > Kulindadromeus as feather-like appendages and alternatively proposes
>
>> > that the compound structures observed around the humerus and femur of
>
>> > Kulindadromeus are support fibers associated with badly degraded
>
>> > scales. We consider this hypothesis highly unlikely because of the
>
>> > taphonomy and morphology of the preserved structures.
>
>
>
> --
>
> _____________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Dann Pigdon
>
> Spatial Data Analyst               Australian Dinosaurs
>
> Melbourne, Australia               http://home.alphalink.com.au/~dannj
>
> _____________________________________________________________
>
>



-- 
Jaime A. Headden
The Bite Stuff: http://qilong.wordpress.com/


"Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth" - P. B. Medawar (1969)