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Re: Exact length of Sue



Thanks! Very useful!

Jerry Alpern

On Apr 21, 2015, at 12:37 PM, Victoria & Jerrold Alpern <vjalp@mindspring.com> 
wrote:

> Thanks! I had thought both legs of AMNH 5027 were replicas of CM 9380, which 
> I assume is the holotype we sold to the Carnegie in the 1940s. Now I’m going 
> to have to revise what I tell visitors!  They often assume that what they see 
> are “fakes”, by which they mean copies. They are happy to learn that most of 
> our 4th Floor fossils are genuine, although I always add that most fossils 
> are themselves casts of the original bones.
> 
> Jerry Alpern
> 
> On Apr 21, 2015, at 12:06 PM, Thomas R. Holtz, Jr. <tholtz@umd.edu> wrote:
> 
>> Half of the tail (and all the legs) of AMNH 5027 are imaginary. And 
>> incorrectly restored in both cases, unfortunately.
>> http://static1.squarespace.com/static/51bf1cd3e4b0a897bf54112b/51bf3928e4b09edc5f83d0af/51bf5cdae4b05a61167e0279/1382741309923/Tyran
>> nosaurus+AMNH+vs+CM.jpg?format=750w
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
>> Email: tholtz@umd.edu        Phone: 301-405-4084
>> Office: Centreville 1216                     
>> Senior Lecturer, Vertebrate Paleontology
>> Dept. of Geology, University of Maryland
>> http://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/
>> Fax: 301-314-9661            
>> 
>> Faculty Director, Science & Global Change Program, College Park Scholars
>> http://www.geol.umd.edu/sgc
>> Fax: 301-314-9843
>> 
>> Mailing Address:     Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
>>                      Department of Geology
>>                      Building 237, Room 1117
>>                      University of Maryland
>>                      College Park, MD 20742 USA
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-DINOSAUR@usc.edu [mailto:owner-DINOSAUR@usc.edu] On Behalf Of 
>>> Victoria & Jerrold Alpern
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 11:49 AM
>>> To: dariusnau@gmx.at
>>> Cc: dinosaurtom2015@seznam.cz; DML
>>> Subject: Re: Exact length of Sue
>>> 
>>> How does the length of FMNH PR 2081 compare to AMNH 5027?
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> Jerry Alpern
>>> AMNH Tour Guide
>>> vjalp@mindspring.com
>>> 917-623-1446
>>> 
>>> On Apr 21, 2015, at 6:42 AM, Darius Nau <dariusnau@gmx.at> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> FMNH PR 2081 seems to be almost exactly 12.3m (40.35feet) long. That is 
>>>> the length given by Hutchinson et al. (2011), who laser-
>>> scanned the skeleton, and one gets almost the exact same figure when 
>>> measuring the axial length in Scott Hartman's (2013) skeletal
>>> reconstruction of the same specimen.
>>>> These are probably the most accurate representations of its total length 
>>>> that are available, and I'm willing to trust them over
>> a
>>> museum website any day.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> As regards intervertebral spacings, they must surely add to the total 
>>>> length, although how much is a good question. I'm a bit in
>> the
>>> dark as to how much these estimates and reconstructions already account for 
>>> them tough.
>>>> 
>>>> REFERENCES:
>>>> Brochu, Christopher A. (2003): Osteology of Tyrannosaurus rex:
>>>> Insights from a Nearly Complete Skeleton and High-Resolution Computed
>>>> Tomographic Analysis of the Skull. Memoir (Society of Vertebrate
>>>> Paleontology), Vol. 7 pp. 1-138 Hartman, Scott (2013): A T. rex named
>>>> Sue 3.0.
>>>> http://scotthartman.deviantart.com/art/A-T-rex-named-Sue-3-0-124138016
>>>> (accessed 12 April 2015) Hutchinson, John R.; Bates, Karl T.; Molnar,
>>>> Julia; Allen, Vivian; Makovicky, Peter J. (2011): A Computational
>>>> Analysis of Limb and Body Dimensions in Tyrannosaurus rex with
>>>> Implications for Locomotion, Ontogeny, and Growth. PLoS ONE, Vol. 6
>>>> (10) pp. 1-20 Larson, Peter (2008): Variation and Sexual Dimorphism in
>>>> Tyrannosaurus rex. In: Larson, Peter; Carpenter, Kenneth:
>>>> Tyrannosaurus rex the Tyrant King. Bloomington pp. 103-128
>>>> 
>>>> On 2015-04-21 07:29, Poekilopleuron wrote:
>>>>> Good day,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> thank you all for your reply to my previous question (I assume Jack
>>>>>> Horner's given date of 1903 must be a mistake). I have another
>>>>> question >regarding tyrannosaurs - what is the exact length of
>>>>> specimen FMNH 2081 (Sue)? >I've seen various values ranging from 12,2
>>>>> to 12,9 metres (about 41 to 43 >feet), which one is correct? Or is it
>>>>> unknown at such a precise manner given >that we don't currently
>>>>> understand how wide are intervertebral "gaps" >and/or how much would
>>>>> soft tissue add to the actual length of the skeleton? Thank >you very
>>>>> much, Tom
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Yours sincerely,
>>>> 
>>>> Darius Nau
>>>> --
>>>> dariusnau@gmx.at
>>>> http://www.paleo.keepfree.de
>> 
>