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Re: [dinosaur] Early dinosaurs had high variation in postnatal development, lost in derived theropods and birds



Ruben Safir wrote:
On Mon, Dec 05, 2016 at 05:16:12PM -0500, Thomas Richard Holtz wrote:
>
> It means that within a species (intraspecific), there can be multiple
> different patterns of ontogenetic development. (Crest A forming before
> Crest B in some members, but B before A in others, for instance.)  Griffin
> found this high degree of within-species variation of development in early
> dinosauromorphs (including early dinosaurs), but is lost to a stereotyped
> pattern in more derived members (Crest A always forming before B, etc.)
>


How can we know that?  Have we found that many eggs?
or juvienals

---

Had reading the paper occurred to you as an appropriate response? The only species they examined were ones with relatively large sample size with many growth stages, and in several cases where they were known from mass assemblages.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 2:27 AM, Ruben Safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
On Mon, Dec 05, 2016 at 05:16:12PM -0500, Thomas Richard Holtz wrote:
> Ruben Safir wrote:
> On 12/05/2016 04:05 PM, Ben Creisler wrote:
> > intraspecific variation
>
>
> what does that mean?
>
> ------
>
> It means that within a species (intraspecific), there can be multiple
> different patterns of ontogenetic development. (Crest A forming before
> Crest B in some members, but B before A in others, for instance.)  Griffin
> found this high degree of within-species variation of development in early
> dinosauromorphs (including early dinosaurs), but is lost to a stereotyped
> pattern in more derived members (Crest A always forming before B, etc.)
>


How can we know that?  Have we found that many eggs?
or juvienals

> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 4:56 PM, Ruben Safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
>
> > On 12/05/2016 04:05 PM, Ben Creisler wrote:
> > > intraspecific variation
> >
> >
> > what does that mean?
> >
> > --
> > So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
> > that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
> > proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> > mrbrklyn.com&d=DgICaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=
> > JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=
> > wpiT5CxPHV7DM8xfjtsvzyPg1PjGu25SgtWs5-63JLE&s=
> > k4HxDKS1yklMMuFu4xo6Ch0fckK7WKS_Mj4c0nG3Zjc&e=
> >
> > DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> > nylxs.com&d=DgICaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=
> > JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=
> > wpiT5CxPHV7DM8xfjtsvzyPg1PjGu25SgtWs5-63JLE&s=0xcKBqmlHOoK_s50dd_
> > Zaq0sevDHFxZHbqJSEck04lM&e=  - Leadership Development in Free Software
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www2.
> > mrbrklyn.com_resources&d=DgICaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN
> > 0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=
> > wpiT5CxPHV7DM8xfjtsvzyPg1PjGu25SgtWs5-63JLE&s=OVbdrF5dKxem7SwubF9-xssv_1_
> > WkpdNGt6QRJ92PFU&e=  - Unpublished Archive
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> > coinhangout.com&d=DgICaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=
> > JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=
> > wpiT5CxPHV7DM8xfjtsvzyPg1PjGu25SgtWs5-63JLE&s=
> > G0gtqjPNKImZB4A2VdHrQLV93C77Q0XczDrUaPNNefA&e=  - coins!
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> > brooklyn-2Dliving.com&d=DgICaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN
> > 0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=
> > wpiT5CxPHV7DM8xfjtsvzyPg1PjGu25SgtWs5-63JLE&s=
> > K6LlN420sEFQz4IUZajKGRZbEqTCYb4wzip_eKQWJB4&e=
> >
> > Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
> > but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
> Email: tholtz@umd.edu         Phone: 301-405-4084
> Principal Lecturer, Vertebrate Paleontology
>
> Office: Geology 4106, 8000 Regents Dr., College Park MD 20742
>
> Dept. of Geology, University of Maryland
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.geol.umd.edu_-7Etholtz_&d=DgIBAg&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=VePu6Bs6BiOQTUUQBnN52EEQ-m0ihUIn4TH9H-eC1VA8i3zBuW9XPlJcNVHO1DTa&m=Y6BGx135eBjo3NXxHVd2pKPca9QtCjViuFuaZ2QwA9A&s=TVmCw5kBGV9uUtFMBWDdGrSbAVEKDTrJc8ho5rgBomw&e=
>
> Phone: 301-405-6965
> Fax: 301-314-9661
>
> Faculty Director, Science & Global Change Program, College Park Scholars
>
> Office: Centreville 1216, 4243 Valley Dr., College Park MD 20742
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.geol.umd.edu_sgc&d=DgIBAg&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=VePu6Bs6BiOQTUUQBnN52EEQ-m0ihUIn4TH9H-eC1VA8i3zBuW9XPlJcNVHO1DTa&m=Y6BGx135eBjo3NXxHVd2pKPca9QtCjViuFuaZ2QwA9A&s=nhg3NzvDkOlPrZX9PKx7I_zWKJwuuQ110Pm82KiPScQ&e=
> Fax: 301-314-9843
>
> Mailing Address:        Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
>                         Department of Geology
>                         Building 237, Room 1117
>
>                         8000 Regents Drive
>                         University of Maryland
>                         College Park, MD 20742-4211 USA

--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.mrbrklyn.com&d=DgIBAg&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=VePu6Bs6BiOQTUUQBnN52EEQ-m0ihUIn4TH9H-eC1VA8i3zBuW9XPlJcNVHO1DTa&m=Y6BGx135eBjo3NXxHVd2pKPca9QtCjViuFuaZ2QwA9A&s=8TWqGPanM9M1_OUCKr3y_Bb3AKlZYLxZWgWzevdLN4w&e=

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nylxs.com&d=DgIBAg&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=VePu6Bs6BiOQTUUQBnN52EEQ-m0ihUIn4TH9H-eC1VA8i3zBuW9XPlJcNVHO1DTa&m=Y6BGx135eBjo3NXxHVd2pKPca9QtCjViuFuaZ2QwA9A&s=oAbHlXlTjaUEaeZUcOaUlX5MpHuxINYrfzKDhv1tzrM&e=  - Leadership Development in Free Software
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Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013




--

Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
Email: tholtz@umd.edu         Phone: 301-405-4084
Principal Lecturer, Vertebrate Paleontology

Office: Geology 4106, 8000 Regents Dr., College Park MD 20742

Dept. of Geology, University of Maryland
http://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/

Phone: 301-405-6965
Fax: 301-314-9661              

Faculty Director, Science & Global Change Program, College Park Scholars

Office: Centreville 1216, 4243 Valley Dr., College Park MD 20742
http://www.geol.umd.edu/sgc
Fax: 301-314-9843

Mailing Address:        Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
                        Department of Geology
                        Building 237, Room 1117

                        8000 Regents Drive
                        University of Maryland
                        College Park, MD 20742-4211 USA